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TimNearFortWorth 
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Joined: 12 Dec 2009
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 Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 6:59am |
But they know what's best for you, the customer. Since they have enough folks willing to pay for a new pickup, basically what you could buy a house for not so many years ago, they will continue to add stuff to the package that they can force on folks. Have read twice now that Ferd plans on only having one car within 5-7 years (Mustang), all else will fall under SUV type "crossover" or "truck". Gone are the days when they listened to the customer, now just push whatever they can off the same line and as long as folks keep buying it, they'll keep adding junk to them because "we build what the folks buy". Grew up Ford, won't even consider one anymore . . . .
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
Points: 10508
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Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 8:43am |
 DaveKamp wrote:
That was a point I haven't brought up, because it wasn't a 'consumer-side' issue, but in dealing with our 6.0 HPOP failures (specifically after explaining my week-and-a-half being stranded in Clovis, New Mexico when my 6.0 had only 8,000mi on the clock), I was advised by a dealer's mechanic that what you mentioned, is a very large reason why we'd found that dealerships weren't particularly inclined to expeditious response to our stranded trucks. The dealer that our fleet is acquired through is substantially more responsive, but it's because our fleet of 8 service trucks is only a tiny fraction of the business we bring them (over cars, light trucks, and SUVs).
I think it's sad that dealership/franchisees are treated with this sort of poor business from a major manufacturer, but I've seen other absurd policies from the likes of MerCruiser, STIHL, SCHWINN... the latter, flushed their legacy down the toilet with that kind of business attitude, and it's a total shame to see the result of a longstanding marque, but they made the bed they now sleep in.
One would think that leadership would look at their own emblem, and see that the emblem on their building is seen by so few, but that same emblem is seen by the world... their desired customer base... intensely, and daily... at their local dealership level, and that as such, they would realize that the solidarity of their relationship with their end customer DEMANDS that their representatives... the DEALERSHIPS... were supported ABOVE AND BEYOND their needs in ALL facets.
Alas, a little bit of stupid, goes a long, long way.  |
There is a lot of truth in that lack of wanting to do warranty work on the Ford side. Ford will attach video clips to some of their repair procedures and by watching the guy work using power tools, it's clear he's done the procedure 100 times in a row. Diag time is .3 hr for anything, if they allow diag time at all. I watched the repair times for 6.4 high pressure fuel system drop from almost 19 hrs. to 12. I firmly believe Ford is making up financially for lack of engineering/quality control warranty costs by screwing the guy that gets to fix the problems. A while back on GM Emerging Issues, they told how they figure warranty times. Supposedly one guy is handed a job that he's never done before, he is only allowed hand tools, every fastener is tightened with a torque wrench, and they don't have him do the job several times to get a better time. Is that true? Maybe. I do know this, anything electrical in nature gets up to 1.0 hr. diag time and the repair times are a lot better as far as I can tell.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 30715
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Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 8:54am |
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There is a lot of truth in that lack of wanting to do warranty work on the Ford side. Ford will attach video clips to some of their repair procedures and by watching the guy work using power tools, it's clear he's done the procedure 100 times in a row. Diag time is .3 hr for anything, if they allow diag time at all. I watched the repair times for 6.4 high pressure fuel system drop from almost 19 hrs. to 12. I firmly believe Ford is making up financially for lack of engineering/quality control warranty costs by screwing the guy that gets to fix the problems.
A while back on GM Emerging Issues, they told how they figure warranty times. Supposedly one guy is handed a job that he's never done before, he is only allowed hand tools, every fastener is tightened with a torque wrench, and they don't have him do the job several times to get a better time. Is that true? Maybe. I do know this, anything electrical in nature gets up to 1.0 hr. diag time and the repair times are a lot better as far as I can tell.
Saw this first hand with GM and Chrysler in the early 80s and NO GM is still no better at this, now Ford is on board. At a independent garage we had to adjust our chargeable hours to the warranty times to keep work in the building, many guys threw in the towel in short order as unable to make any real income that way. By the mid-90's GOOD mechanics were slim to none on finding/keeping. Around that same time I did too, 20+ years on cars, trucks, Heavy Equipment, side work to make ends meet and tools ever changing I gave in and gave up.
CAT, Cummins, Detroit Diesel, DEERE and Mercedes are doing similar in their Truck/HE engine markets, will either stop or the mechanic trade will dissolve and NOBODY will be working on anything.
Edited by DMiller - 09 Nov 2018 at 8:56am
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
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Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 12:13pm |
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GM diag times changed about 3 month ago for US based dealers only. I'm not going so far as to defend GM, but it's 25 hours warranty time to put pistons and rings in one bank. I can have the heads off within an hour and all 8 holes done in just over a day. I'm not claiming to be the fastest tech there ever was, but I make very good time doing GM heavy engine, both gas and diesel. GM has also changed coverage for many things. It used to be a wheel bearing was considered powertrain and fell under 5/100K powertrain warranty. Now they're 3/36 bumper to bumper and powertrain is 5/60K. Things you might expect to be powertrain like a water pump is 3/36.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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darrel in ND
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Hebron, ND
Points: 8623
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Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 2:40pm |
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I just don't get the big ole computer screens in these new vehicles. We preach and preach about distracted driving, then put a touch screen monitor in for people to play with and try to figure out while driving down the road. Nothing distracting about that, I guess. Darrel
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chaskaduo
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Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Location: Twin Cities
Points: 5203
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Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 5:30pm |
Hey Darrel as long as you got your seat belt on. 
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 22265
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Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 6:29pm |
yeah, take the belt off ( to smack the unruly kids in the back....) and the dang screen goes FULL WHITE, yammering about 'you're not wearing your seatbelt'... scare the bejeebers outta you and land in a ditch.... i really,really hate computerz.....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 8:30pm |
ask a car mechanic why they are in business and he will say TO BUILD CARS.... the CEO will say NO... TO MAKE MONEY !! ask a power plant operator why they are in business and he will say TO MAKE POWER... the CEO will say NO... TO MAKE MONEY !! ask Wal Mart worker why they are in business and he will say TO HELP PEOPLE... the CEO will say, NO... TO MAKE MONEY !!.. EVERY COMPANY in the world is in business to MAKE MONEY... PERIOD... You produce what people will buy.. Not everyone will like every product, but the WINNERS in the game are building WHAT PEOPLE WANT.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DaveKamp
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Location: LeClaire, Ia
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Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 8:46pm |
darrel in ND wrote:
I just don't get the big ole computer screens in these new vehicles. We preach and preach about distracted driving, then put a touch screen monitor in for people to play with and try to figure out while driving down the road. Nothing distracting about that, I guess. Darrel |
And this is the strongest of fundamental points.
I put this truck in reverse, at night, and that big screen goes full blast blue, lights up the whole cab, and blinds me. Doesn't matter what I do, the only solution to make it so that I can see is to throw a coat over the whole fking dash.
After about twenty seconds of that crap, it puts up a message that STAYS... until I acknowledge it... "CAMERA NOT AVAILABLE".
No S#i7 Sherlock- the TAILGATE isn't available EITHER...
The answer is "Oh, connect the CAMERA DELETE connector to solve that". Really? You mean the one that's plugged into it now?
These screens are incredibly dangerous.
Oh... put the heater in RECIRCULATE, to get the cab warmed up on a cold, dry night. After about four minutes, it drops out of recirculate mode. WHY?
Dealership says that's how it's supposed to work, and it cannot be changed.... "Just push the button again"
No, I'll NEVER, EVER buy one of these.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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steve(ill)
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Location: illinois
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Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 8:58pm |
Every day Ford sells an average of 2,452 F-Series trucks, significantly more than GM’s Silverado/Sierra combination of 1,935, and Ram’s 1,647. We’ve had three straight months of the Silverado losing to the Ram now, too, while the F-Series pulls away from everyone. To break it down even further, Ford sells 102 trucks per hour, meaning an average of nearly two people are driving off the lot with a new F-150 every minute in the U.S., 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Comparatively, about 59 Silverados are sold per hour and 69 Rams in the same time. Both those numbers net the manufacturers about one truck a minute; keep in mind that, since dealerships aren't open in the middle of the night on Sundays, the actual numbers during business hours are even more dramatic.
Read more: https://autoweek.com/article/trucks/ford-sells-nearly-two-trucks-minute-how-does-competition-stack#ixzz5WPuMQVvH
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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jaybmiller
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Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 6:08am |
Ford Canada sales for 2018( to end of 3rd qtr) are Total cars sold 26,662 Total trucks sold 212,669 of those trucks, 115,788 are F series
if I can figure how to pervert teh eXcel sheet into text ,I'll post the whole sheet. it makes for interesting reading !
It seems 4 door, 4WD pickups with 5' boxes are the new station wagon or mini vans....
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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fixer1958
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Location: kansas
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Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 7:18am |
Worked with a guy several years ago that had to move on to a Toyota Dealership because they offered better insurance. His wife had cancer and the cost for her treatments were more than he could manage plus he had 4 little kids. He didn't necessarily make anymore money but the benefits in his eyes were better plus training etc.
I talked to him a few months later and he wasn't all that happy. Apparently since he was the new guy he got all the warranty work. He was paid flag time so he wasn't making jack. One in particular was a problem with the Yaris evaporators leaking. Regular book time was something like 6-7 hours and he was getting 2. That kinda chit can give a tech a serious attitude. Granted you do a couple and you may get close to 2, do those all day and you still not making anything.
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