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PaulB 
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Rocky Ridge Md
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 Posted: 17 Jan 2021 at 7:55am |
I've been told (and have it in writing from Md. MVA/DOT) that for my needs a non-commercial class A will serve my needs and will be recognized anywhere that FMCSA has jurisdiction. As for the matter of prize money from tractor pulling; If I claim it on my regular IRS tax forms any do not use travel/truck expense deductions to offset the prize money, I am NOT considered "commercial" This is also in the letter I have from Md. MVA/DOT. I would be best for anyone asking questions like this, to go directly to their home state's MVA/DOT education section and ask very specific questions. If you do this by E-mail you will have it in writing. Carry a copy this correspondence in you vehicle at all times and don't argue with the person wearing a badge. If you are doing what has been asked of you, things will go well. I've had a Federal DOT eyesight exemption for over 40 years and only have a problem with those that can't read or refuse to comprehend the entirety of the exemption.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Mrgoodwrench
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Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Location: CHICORA PA
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Posted: 17 Jan 2021 at 9:05am |
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That is great advise. Unfortunately I have been unable to find any email contact info for Pa Dmv/ dot that will allow questions.
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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Charlie175
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Location: Shenandoah, VA
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Posted: 17 Jan 2021 at 11:46am |
Same as Paul, I have a email stating what I wrote. Not to worried about VA.
My issue comes when I drive to Harrisburg to pull ( Go thru MD, WV, PA) what happens if I get stopped?
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 17 Jan 2021 at 3:08pm |
They fall back to Federal Law and FMCSA rules, that is where that problem occurs, VA, MD and As I read it CA have NON Commercial Class A and B license, NOT CDLs, if Not honored by another state is what it is. In state would make little difference. In MO we have Farm Exemption, where can haul OWN commodities to a marketer even across State Line IF WITHIN A BOUNDARY District, say Mid Mo to Western IL Ports. CANNOT make a Run to IN or the OH River Ports in KY under the Exemption.
Argue yourself into a Ticket, it becomes YOUR responsibility to have Proper and Correct License as well registration and Health card if required. No home state DOT will back you inside another state, they cannot as have ZERO jurisdiction there.
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DMiller
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Posted: 17 Jan 2021 at 4:03pm |
 Mrgoodwrench wrote:
I've been trying to get a real answer to this question for a couple years now. I've asked police officers and dmv employees with no results, so I figured id ask here....
What license is required to pull a combination that is LESS THAN 26,000LBS W/ a trailer that is MORE THAN 10,000LBS?
obviously a class A, CDL or noncommercial license would cover this, but ,they both are intended for 26k and up. It is very common to have this combination, basically every one ton pickup pulling a large trailer. I have heard several "answers" but nothing backed up in writing. I don't know if laws vary state to state but I'm live in Pa.. Here the back of a regular class C license reads single or combo less than 26k w/ trailer less than 10k. I'm looking for any info I can get but ideally a answer that i can back up with documentation. |
OK to SIMPLIFY
Trailer has a Tandem DUAL Wheel axles set, rated at 14,000GVWR, truck setting in front of it as my own F250SD with 14,000GVWR, you are NOW at a combined 28,000 GVWR and CDL Required. I am allowed NO CDL with NO Air Brakes on a Single Wheel tandem Gooseneck rated at 9000GVWR and my truck at 14000GVWR, 23,000Combined GVWR
NOT Licensed Weight but ID Tagged RATED. I step UP to a Tandem DUALLY and I step across a Narrow margin becoming CDL Required. And YES it is that simple.
You haul anything FOR SALE, or Sold and belongs to someone else, YOU are hauling For Hire, CDL Required WITH a DOT number. You haul to shows with trophies not a problem, haul to a competition with Monetary Gain you are hauling for revenue and are CDL REQUIRED.
Currently GVWR is being adjusted on high end one ton duallies and the step ahead 4500/5500 series trucks, these from the factory are CDL Required as are rated that high.
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Mrgoodwrench
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Posted: 17 Jan 2021 at 5:56pm |
DMiller wrote:
Mrgoodwrench wrote:
I've been trying to get a real answer to this question for a couple years now. I've asked police officers and dmv employees with no results, so I figured id ask here....
What license is required to pull a combination that is LESS THAN 26,000LBS W/ a trailer that is MORE THAN 10,000LBS?
obviously a class A, CDL or noncommercial license would cover this, but ,they both are intended for 26k and up. It is very common to have this combination, basically every one ton pickup pulling a large trailer. I have heard several "answers" but nothing backed up in writing. I don't know if laws vary state to state but I'm live in Pa.. Here the back of a regular class C license reads single or combo less than 26k w/ trailer less than 10k. I'm looking for any info I can get but ideally a answer that i can back up with documentation. |
OK to SIMPLIFY
Trailer has a Tandem DUAL Wheel axles set, rated at 14,000GVWR, truck setting in front of it as my own F250SD with 14,000GVWR, you are NOW at a combined 28,000 GVWR and CDL Required. I am allowed NO CDL with NO Air Brakes on a Single Wheel tandem Gooseneck rated at 9000GVWR and my truck at 14000GVWR, 23,000Combined GVWR
NOT Licensed Weight but ID Tagged RATED. I step UP to a Tandem DUALLY and I step across a Narrow margin becoming CDL Required. And YES it is that simple.
You haul anything FOR SALE, or Sold and belongs to someone else, YOU are hauling For Hire, CDL Required WITH a DOT number. You haul to shows with trophies not a problem, haul to a competition with Monetary Gain you are hauling for revenue and are CDL REQUIRED.
Currently GVWR is being adjusted on high end one ton duallies and the step ahead 4500/5500 series trucks, these from the factory are CDL Required as are rated that high. |
Dmiller, the examples you gave are accurate, no argument here. the 28k combo is clearly a class A requirement and the 23k is everyday regular license. BUT neither addresses the question i have been asking....
what license is required for a combination LESS than 26,000lbs when the trailer is OVER 10,000LBS?
the specific example that is currently parked in my driveway is a gmc dually at 13000lbs and a 4 horse trailer at 11,000 for a total combined gvw of 24000. Assuming the truck and trailer are properly plated and registered and the combo is strictly used for recreation, what license is the driver required to have?
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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JW in MO
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Posted: 17 Jan 2021 at 6:26pm |
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I have a 1 ton dually licensed for 24K, my trailer is rated for 14K. I have a class E in MO which is a commercial to allow me to drive my employers vehicle, nothing to do with my own. I have hauled tractors, crawlers and trucks from PA to CO and OK to MN. The only time I was ever questioned was by a genuine "Barney," in Beatrice, NE on my way home with a new empty trailer. Everything is always strapped or chained down as it should be and I continuously paint over rust spots on the trailer.
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 18 Jan 2021 at 8:29am |
So long as ONLY your animals in the trailer, only need a Drivers license, add a Buddies and you have to have CDL. CANNOT under any circumstance haul anything but your Own goods, CANNOT be sold or selling as that becomes For Profit and Business Based.
JW, the strings are tightening where a State DOT decides to stop you it had better have all the correct paperwork. Franklin County and STL County have their own DOT now along with STATE DOT crews. St Charles county is toying with the idea as is Jackson County MO. I was stopped by a MoSHP and taken back to St Clair scales ONCE in five years as passed it by with a Farm Tractor, my own. The truck is Registered to Me, not Farm and was cautioned as to Farm Machinery hauling on BL plate opens a lot of chance encounters. Explained Three farms greater than radius limit to F tags(one at one time in IL), they accepted that did not have to weigh. A Dually with Dually trailer they are cracking down on as NOT exempt by GVWR.
IL is anyone's guess and are cash strapped.
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Mrgoodwrench
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Posted: 18 Jan 2021 at 9:36am |
DMiller wrote:
So long as ONLY your animals in the trailer, only need a Drivers license, add a Buddies and you have to have CDL. CANNOT under any circumstance haul anything but your Own goods, CANNOT be sold or selling as that becomes For Profit and Business Based.
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this was my original Interpretation, but have since been told by many, including members in this thread, that, that is incorrect. Do you have a source for this?
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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jaybmiller
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
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Posted: 18 Jan 2021 at 9:50am |
re: ...selling as that becomes For Profit and Business Based.
yeesh SOME farmers ACTUALLY MAKE money ???  hard to believe considering all the input costs and such....
There 'should' be a unified law for driving on the highways, something simple and easy and UNIVERSAL......
I remember friend hauling steel outta Ontario into Michigan and when he got cross the boarder had to move the trailer axles for different spacing. That was just crazy ! hmm.. you can CHANGE the axle spacing ????
life is too dang short for so many rules....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
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ac fleet
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Posted: 18 Jan 2021 at 10:52am |
Laws vary in each state. Here in Illinois they are always bustin guys playing dumb! ---- I have class A with air brake and hazmat CDL and DOT cards so they never bother me. Its no problem getting legal so you never have to worry.
In your case I would get the commercial rating and not worry about it. --- A lot of bs, ya, BUT saves you some money in fines and keeps you off their "hit list" in the future.
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http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/
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Charlie175
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Location: Shenandoah, VA
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Posted: 18 Jan 2021 at 12:51pm |
This is straight from Virginia State Code. Your state should have something similar available to look up
"Commercial driver's license" means any driver's license issued to a person in accordance with the provisions of this article, or if the license is issued by another state, any license issued to a person in accordance with the federal Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act, which authorizes such person to drive a commercial motor vehicle of the class and type and with the restrictions indicated on the license. "Commercial driver's license information system" or "CDLIS" means the commercial driver's license information system established by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration pursuant to § 12007 of the Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986. "Commercial learner's permit" means a permit issued to an individual in accordance with the provisions of this article or, if issued by another state, a permit issued in accordance with the standards contained in the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations, which, when carried with a valid driver's license issued by the same state or jurisdiction, authorizes the individual to operate a class of commercial motor vehicle when accompanied by a holder of a valid commercial driver's license for purposes of behind-the-wheel training. When issued to a commercial driver's license holder, a commercial learner's permit serves as authorization for accompanied behind-the-wheel training in a commercial motor vehicle for which the holder's current commercial driver's license is not valid. "Commercial motor vehicle" means, except for those vehicles specifically excluded in this definition, every motor vehicle, vehicle or combination of vehicles used to transport passengers or property which either: (i) has a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds; (ii) has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds inclusive of a towed vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 10,000 pounds; (iii) is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver; or (iv) is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section. Every such motor vehicle or combination of vehicles shall be considered a commercial motor vehicle whether or not it is used in a commercial or profit-making activity. The following are excluded from the definition of commercial motor vehicle: 1. Any vehicle when used by an individual solely for his own personal purposes, such as personal recreational activities; 2. Any vehicle that (i) is controlled and operated by a farmer, whether or not it is owned by the farmer, and that is used exclusively for farm use, as provided in §§ 46.2-649.3 and 46.2-698; (ii) is used to transport either agricultural products, farm machinery, or farm supplies to or from a farm; (iii) is not used in the operation of a common or contract motor carrier; and (iv) is used within 150 miles of the farmer's farm; 3. Any vehicle operated for military purposes by (i) active duty military personnel; (ii) members of the military reserves; (iii) members of the national guard on active duty, including personnel on full-time national guard duty, personnel on part-time national guard training, and national guard military technicians (civilians who are required to wear military uniforms), but not U.S. Reserve technicians; and (iv) active duty U.S. Coast Guard personnel; or 4. Emergency equipment operated by a member of a firefighting, rescue, or emergency entity in the performance of his official duties. |
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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DMiller
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Posted: 18 Jan 2021 at 1:52pm |
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Key wording and Mileage limitation, falls under same disguise as MO F Tag license. So as here, hauling ONLY Your own products, NOT transporting other goods or services to another person, NOT using the conveyance as a business into itself. Can haul Livestock(PER IRS Horses Do NOT count, Recreational Animal) and Crops or machines bought or traded in or sold, CAVEAT, Within 150 miles. Collectors tractors are considered Hobby, NOT Farm supplies. Put a conventional license on the machine and be caught with Neighbors livestock being hauled to market or haul a load of lumber for contracting purposes and you are done.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 18 Jan 2021 at 2:10pm |
re: Collectors tractors
great WHAT is a ' Collectors tractors' ?????? Who decides what Collectors tractors are ?????
I can just see some 'silly servant' deciding anything NOT 'green' isn't a real tractor so it must be a 'collector tractor !!! 
bottom line, too many different rules and laws for SIMPLE things.....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Charlie175
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Posted: 18 Jan 2021 at 4:39pm |
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Yes indeed, should be cut and dry with clear rules.
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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JW in MO
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Posted: 18 Jan 2021 at 7:53pm |
DMiller wrote:
JW, the strings are tightening where a State DOT decides to stop you it had better have all the correct paperwork. Franklin County and STL County have their own DOT now along with STATE DOT crews. St Charles county is toying with the idea as is Jackson County MO. I was stopped by a MoSHP and taken back to St Clair scales ONCE in five years as passed it by with a Farm Tractor, my own. The truck is Registered to Me, not Farm and was cautioned as to Farm Machinery hauling on BL plate opens a lot of chance encounters. Explained Three farms greater than radius limit to F tags(one at one time in IL), they accepted that did not have to weigh. A Dually with Dually trailer they are cracking down on as NOT exempt by GVWR.
IL is anyone's guess and are cash strapped. |
I forgot to add that all this stuff was my own, I don't haul for others, I don't do it every day, just my stuff to shows or plow day etc. I had a tractor shipped from Duluth, MN by a U-ship a guy with no DOT, he lost a wheel bearing in IA and Hwy patrol came by, said the trooper asked him 10 different ways about ownership and reason for travel. I worked for a company that had DOT licensed trucks that did installations all over the midwest, boss always said if you wanted to know if you were DOT compliant, just drive through Nebraska. They will give you a piece of paper stating all it takes to be compliant that day. We had box trucks and they viewed them as quick easy money.
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 19 Jan 2021 at 3:54am |
jaybmiller wrote:
re: Collectors tractors
great WHAT is a ' Collectors tractors' ?????? Who decides what Collectors tractors are ?????
I can just see some 'silly servant' deciding anything NOT 'green' isn't a real tractor so it must be a 'collector tractor !!!
bottom line, too many different rules and laws for SIMPLE things.....
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If its clean over 40 years old new tires and waxed it is probably a collectors tractor Filthy and implements aboard probably a daily user
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bradley6874
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Posted: 19 Jan 2021 at 6:26pm |
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Driver License Class You May Drive: You May Tow: Exceptions
A Any single combination of vehicles Any trailer Motorcycles Endorsements may be required
B Motor vehicles 26,001 or more pounds (GVW) Trailers 10,000 pounds or less Combination of Class F (tractor) and Class G (trailer) Motorcycles Endorsements may be required
C Motor vehicles under 26,001 pounds (GVW) Trailers 10,000 pounds or less Motorcycles Endorsements required
Commercial Driver License Endorsements
Endorsement Code Authorizes:
T Double/Triple Trailer
TPXS All CDL Endorsements
P Passenger Transport
S School Bus Authorized
N Tank Vehicle
H Hazardous Materials
X N and H Combined
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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bradley6874
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Posted: 19 Jan 2021 at 6:30pm |
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Just stop by your local scales and ask them if you can bring your rig in for a courtesy inspection drive in get checked learn what's wrong and fix what they tell you to
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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Mrgoodwrench
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Posted: 19 Jan 2021 at 6:38pm |
bradley6874 wrote:
Just stop by your local scales and ask them if you can bring your rig in for a courtesy inspection drive in get checked learn what's wrong and fix what they tell you to |
and pay all the fines for not being properly licensed, registered,ect
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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Mrgoodwrench
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Posted: 19 Jan 2021 at 6:38pm |
bradley6874 wrote:
Driver License Class You May Drive: You May Tow: Exceptions
A Any single combination of vehicles Any trailer Motorcycles Endorsements may be required
B Motor vehicles 26,001 or more pounds (GVW) Trailers 10,000 pounds or less Combination of Class F (tractor) and Class G (trailer) Motorcycles Endorsements may be required
C Motor vehicles under 26,001 pounds (GVW) Trailers 10,000 pounds or less Motorcycles Endorsements required
Commercial Driver License Endorsements
Endorsement Code Authorizes:
T Double/Triple Trailer
TPXS All CDL Endorsements
P Passenger Transport
S School Bus Authorized
N Tank Vehicle
H Hazardous Materials
X N and H Combined |
is this Maryland info?
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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bradley6874
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Posted: 19 Jan 2021 at 8:19pm |
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Yes it's maryland right off dmv website.
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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bradley6874
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Posted: 19 Jan 2021 at 8:25pm |
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If they know your coming for a courtesy check no tickets just a list of what needs to be fixed . I had to add some more conspicuity tape ,my not for hire wasn't bold enough, and needed fire extinguisher inside decals
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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Scott B
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Posted: 19 Jan 2021 at 10:23pm |
TomC wrote:
Yes sir,it catches my attention pretty quick to see one of those guys out in the far left lane,bopping to the tunes with his cap on backwards, in a 1997 half ton,pulling a worn out bumper pull car trailer with passenger car tires on with a bobcat on the trailer strapped down with 2 orange 4 wheeler straps,, I get out of the way! |
That’s funny.…I just recently saw that scenario (almost exactly) on I-49 heading to KC. Guy flew by me easily at 80-85 mph, the axles on his trailer had to be bent the way the tires were all splayed out. About 5 mins later, I passed him pulled over with TWO blow outs on same side of the trailer. They think just because it’ll roll it’s good; but horribly dangerous.
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D17 Series 1
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Allis B- 1945
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Scott B
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Posted: 19 Jan 2021 at 10:31pm |
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I often borrow my nephews gooseneck that is licensed to a commercial business. Believe I’m at risk of being deemed ‘commercial” even though I’m hauling my own goods. I never use their stuff that has their emblems/decals that would stand out.
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D17 Series 1
Allis B- 1939
Allis B- 1945
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TheEndDoors
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Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 8:18am |
Contact any driving school or police department. They are obliged to help you answer this question. I have never driven a trailer, especially with such a load. I used a fake driver's license for a long time until one day, it was checked at a hotel through this ID Analyzer -- idanalyzer.com. It's good that they only fined me -- when they took me to a police station, I thought they would give me a real sentence... People should never try to deceive government agencies with a fake id. They will find out about it sooner or later anyway.
Edited by TheEndDoors - 15 Aug 2022 at 3:12pm
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DMiller
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Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 10:34am |
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I continue to hear or read LICENSE TAG Weight from people, it is NOT and not ever been LICENSED Weight but the GVWR on the Door Jamb, eradicate that sticker and the DOT boys have a catalog with that weight by VIN Codes. The FED DOT established the rules NOT the local state code legislation, either deal with the Fed regulations and rules or pay your money takes your chances. MO DOT(IE Brown Shirts) have been collecting LARGE SUMS from boys doing Hot Shot work, NO Labels, NO DOT Numbers, trying to Fly under the Radar. Hot Shot (Ton Trucks and gooseneck trailers) are being singled out these days if no markings as are suspect by that. Got stopped twice by MO DOT(Not to be confused with MoDOT Hwy Dept) hauling to BILs farm and Back, all checked as expected and well within bounds as to FARM Transport so was out of their jurisdiction as to the DOT side, but did perform Inspection on trailer and truck, BREAKAWAY Batteries are a requirement for Electric Brake set ups and HAVE to engage pucks if they pull the safety trip. Mine Passed last time
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Coke-in-MN
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Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 12:09pm |
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Watch also forthe catch GOT YA of a Health Card to go with your DOT numbers , your CDL and in case you have any truck over 3/4 ton and are hauling anything needing plac cards , so if you have a propane tank in the bed you can be required to have a Has mat endorsment and need all DOT required rules .
MN changed laws on moving a skid loader (which was exempt for landscapers) to now require a license upgrade for trailer, truck , and person .
Farm use falls into gray areas , but that kicker is the 10,001 weight , as when that weight is reached a lot changes . The other hidden part is at that weight a DOT inspection sticker is needed on trailer and also tow vehicle . So a 1/2 ton or 3/4 which meets the tow requirement with a 10,001 trailer needs a DOT inspection sticker
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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
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bikergreat1911
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Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 8:05pm |
In PA. It's very tricky to understand because there is 2 different laws to under stand. 1. Is you drivers license, the 2nd is the bridge law weight. If you have a class C license you can haul up to 26,000 total comb weight ( total truck and trailer). Now on to the bridge law weight, vehicle classification if you have a 14,000 gvwr trailer your truck to the be license for combination weight. In pa if u have a trailer under 10k you only need to have a truck class high enough for Tongue weight and the weight of the ppl in it. Once you go over 10k you need combination of truck and trailer weight. Thats even if you have a 16k rv camper. So yes if your truck is 10k and your trailer is 15k total of 25k you can drive it with a class C. But you also need to have a combination weight of 25k on your truck Registration.
The nice thing is now in PA you dont need to have a weight sticker on ur truck any more. So if your going to a few shows a year I wouldn't worry if you were doing it a lot then i would suggest uping your truck weight class.... it's very confusing, that you could be legal to operate said truck & trl. But not have the truck weight classes right... i hope this helps.
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Youtube channel= rgs adventure
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shameless dude
Orange Level
Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Location: east NE
Points: 13611
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Posted: 09 Aug 2022 at 9:47pm |
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I used to haul horses across the U.S., had a ferd dually 4-dr long box diesel at first, horse trailer was an 8 horse slant with tack room, and dressing room in place of the living quarters. we never had to stop at any scales. If we did get contacted by law enforcement (DOT) we told them (I really shouldn't tell ya'll this but I will), that we were either going to or coming from a trail ride (and name off some place that has trails) we were good to continue then. we were always overloaded for that truck, I could tell cuz it wouldn't hardly pull the loaded trailer. sometimes down to 2nd gear on the interstates in the mountains and about to down shift to grandma gear nearing the top. whew! the owner of that truck finally traded it off for a 2-ton ferd with a 429 gasser, 8 ft flatbed and an automatic tranny. that truck pulled the same trailer fine and got better mileage than the dually diesel. it was really short wheel based and you couldn't hardly stand to drive/ride in it. about shook you to death! so when pulling the living quartered horse trailers, make sure to have a good tow vehicle as those type trailers are heavy! and you gotta make a good show to johnny law cuz he'll be watching!
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