| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
orangeman 
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 1765
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Design Evolution D2200 to 433 Diesel
Posted: 27 Mar 2024 at 4:49pm |
The AC HD4 produced between 1965-1969 parts manual shows that the engine did not include a balancer, but when one moves to the AC 433 Parts manual released by Harvey shows the 433 with a balancer. Can any of the folks experienced in both engines shed insight on why when it became the 433 I&T that the design included a balancer? Am assuming the engineers, moved the RPM upper limit to boost HP and thus the balancer was needed? Am also wondering why it would not have been included initially when the D2200 motor came out, maybe the accountants had something to do with this? Any insights would be very much appreciated.
Although I have not been around a lot of AC D2200 engines it seems that within its RPM range that below half throttle there is a fair amount of vibration.
~ Orangeman
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20574
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Mar 2024 at 5:16pm |
|
Your older non-turbo 2200 engines only ran 2,000 RPM tops. When the turbo and turbo/intercooler were added to the 433-series engines, the top speed became 2,500 RPM. That's why the balancer was needed. Remember that flywheel HP was taken from 50 HP to 100 HP.
|
|
orangeman
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 1765
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Mar 2024 at 5:54pm |
|
Dr. Allis - thanks for the good insights, and yes the horsepower did grow considerably. On the D2200 is there anyway to reduce the vibrations below mid RPM and smooth the engine out. Am assuming that in order to reduce vibrations below mid RPM that balancing would be need for all the rotating parts within the block, yes? ~ Orangeman
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20574
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Mar 2024 at 9:17pm |
|
You could disassemble the entire engine and have the crankshaft spin balanced with the flywheel and crank pulley, balance all pistons/conn rod assemblies and still have the same complaint. Some vibrations are balance and some are harmonics. A Perkins almost makes the headlights fall off the fenders.
|
|
SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8250
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 Mar 2024 at 11:37pm |
|
Just guessing not...did the 2200 have the balance shafts the 433 employed?
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20574
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 6:19am |
|
No, the 2200 did not have a balancer box.
|
|
tbran
Orange Level
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
Points: 3299
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 8:36am |
|
We sold the last series of dozers with the 4 cylinder 2200 engine - some vibrated - some didn't. We would raise or lower the high idle to avoid rattle. We helped Middle Tn with a biodiesel 4.33 (w balancer removed - remember it turns 2x crank speed) in a Corvett , set a speed record on bio diesel. I do not know the long term effects of running w/o a balancer at high speed - but there are a lot of 6000's out there running w/o them. I always thought a 3 cylinder version of the 426 would have been neat. 3 cylinders do not need balancers. Anyway - I saw a set of direct injection heads for the D262 at Harvey. The had much better engine life - HP and performace and especially efficiency of the 4.33I vs the 6 cylinder. They did durability test on the dyno with the 4.33I at 120 HP flywheel. That is amazing vs the fact the naturally asperated version was 'doggy' at about 50 hp. Also the 4.33 had 3 different compression ratio pistons we have found. Actually only 2 but if one orders pistons - you get the piston used in the 200-7020. The 2200 had the 180/185/190 piston with the DB pump the 433 had 2 styles of the DM. The 4.33 had AC/ then Bosch injectors - with the later Bosch with smaller tip holes. The 4.33 T did not have the intercooler - the 4.33I did.
Edited by tbran - 28 Mar 2024 at 8:40am
|
|
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20574
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 8:44am |
|
Tbran, was there a "2400" engine ?? basically a 2200 with a turbo/eng oil cooler ?? I seem to remember in the head bolt torque sequence paper that they listed the 2200-2400-2500-2800-2900 engines.
Edited by DrAllis - 28 Mar 2024 at 10:18am
|
|
SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8250
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 8:48am |
|
A D19 gas is a gas hog,a diesel engine not long lived as a rule and expensive to rebuild so it seems to me that a 433TA would be the perfect answer to make a 19 a usable tractor.
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20574
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 8:52am |
|
And if you can salvage source the correct timing cover and front engine plate, you can have an older 190/190XT hydraulic pump on that engine and still make 80+ PTO HP.
|
|
tbran
Orange Level
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
Points: 3299
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 Mar 2024 at 10:52am |
Doc, Don't know - I saw that 2400 mentioned and figured it a misprint - Seems like befor the metric designation there was a 2200 2250 and maybe a 2400 ? Maybe someone has some old engine literature ? The 4.33 first appeared in the F2 in 1978. I 'think' we saw some in BARKO log loaders around 1976 ish ? I think the 4.33 started when they upped the 2900 with wet inj sleeves around 1975 for '76 7000's -
|
|
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
|
|
