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D-17 Slow hydraulics

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WF owner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: D-17 Slow hydraulics
    Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 10:17am
I have a D-17 (Series 1) that the hydraulics are very slow on. Yesterday, I drained the hydraulic sump and pulled the pan off. I was thinking (hoping) that maybe there was a plugged screen. Everything looks really clean and the fluid was not milky. (From the empty pails at the auction where I bought it, I suspect it was 303. It will be replaced with an 821 equivalent.)

I have a couple questions. Where is the intake for the hydraulic pump? Is there a screen over the intake? I really hate to remove the pump if I don't have to.

Any ideas why it would pump so slow. It took almost a minute to lift the loader to about 4'.
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Strokendiesel002 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strokendiesel002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 11:32am
Congrats on the new to you D17!

What loader is on it (400/500 series, trip, other) and is the loader operating off of the internal hydraulics or is there an auxiliary pump and reservoir? 

From what I learned when starting to research how to power the 400 series loader I added to mine, if  it's operating off the internals and anything but an old trip loader it's going to be slow as that is a low volume-high pressure system and the newer cylinders are designed for higher volume lower pressure systems.

Also, engine speed will dictate speed. Was it at full idle, full throttle or somewhere in between?

Pics?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 12:13pm
Just looked at Tractor Data.com, they don't say anything about the different series except for series IV list flow @ 10.5/gpm, but everything else is 1.5/gpm  super low by most standards today. A handy place to look at such things, but don't know how correct they are.


So find a place to add a bigger gpm pump or live with it. Most old loader out here ran pump off the front of crank shaft for loaders. But don't know how hard to do on your tractor.  WinkOr bust open a mason jar you got hid out back and buy a new tractor loader.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 5:58pm
The old high-pressure pumps were rated at 4.5 GPM, not 1.5 GPM.  These specs are hard to find, but they are in the D-15 service manual and the pump is the same for an older D-17.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 7:21pm
I guess I was wat too vague. It is an old trip loader and it is powered by the regular tractor hydraulics. Even lifting just the snap coupler arms is very slow.
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 8:12pm
Provided your control lever/linkage is moving things as far as they can go, if it was mine, I'd be pulling the pump and freshening it up. But, if it was me, I can go thru the pump and don't have to hire anyone to do it.
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MACK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 8:32pm
broken springs, stuck plungers and worn rollers can cause low volume . Pull it out while oil is out and pan is off.               MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strokendiesel002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 7:49am
Say Dr and Mack-

I'm sure it's been asked before, but is there any way of putting a higher volume pump inside these older D17s?

I know that it's probably easier for most to add a pump for most, bit if one were to be pulling out the internal or inclined to try and limit how many things were bolted onto theirs, could it be reasonably done?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 7:52am
The short answer is NO, and why would one want to spend $$$$$$ and still end up with a pump that isn't "live" ???  A D-19 pump has slightly larger plungers, but the volume gain would be sooo small, it's not worth the hassle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strokendiesel002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 9:53am
Thanks Dr!
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MACK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 8:48pm
Best to mount a crank driven pump out front with a multispool  valve.        MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 4:43am
I would suggest a flow check.  You'll need someone who has a hyd flow meter.  Should have  4.5 GPM at 3500PSI or the pump is worn.  Also check that the right cylinders are on the loader, they should be skinny (low volume, high pressure). not fat(high volume,low pressure).  With the D-17 a lot of loaders will fit, but if you have one set up for a series 4, it will be slow on a series 1.  Also, IIRR, there is a speed adjustment screw, on the LH sheet metal, below the fuel tank, that can make a small difference in the speed.

Post some pics of the loader cyls, those with experience can tell you which cyl's you have...


Edited by DiyDave - 08 Apr 2021 at 4:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 6:28am
A healthy pump will raise the lift arms in 3 seconds or LESS !! Actually closer to 2 seconds. That is a flow check. The speed adjustment screw isn't on the oldest D-17's and does nothing for raise speed. It is a drop speed for the Traction Booster system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

A healthy pump will raise the lift arms in 3 seconds or LESS !! Actually closer to 2 seconds. That is a flow check. The speed adjustment screw isn't on the oldest D-17's and does nothing for raise speed. It is a drop speed for the Traction Booster system.

I stand corrected on the speed screw.  Been a while since I read the manual.

Still would help to know if the cyl's are the right ones, otherwise the flow check is meaningless...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 7:06pm
If empty lift arms will raise in less than 3 seconds, the pump volume is probably fine. The pressure setting is still unknown, but that gets into the lifting power, not speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 7:30pm
The lift cylinders are very slow also.  I have a couple other D-17's and this one raises much slower. It takes about 20 - 30 seconds to raise the lift arms.

I have never done anything with a hydraulic pump before. Any advice?

Edit: I should have said the lift cylinders on the rear of the tractor, not just the loader cylinders.


Edited by WF owner - 08 Apr 2021 at 7:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 7:42pm
A simple test would be to hook this loader's cyl's to another d-17's pump, and see how fast it raises with a good pump behind it...Wink
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