D17 rod bearings

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   I have a series 1 D17 that develop a knocking sound 2 weeks ago. After a lot of digging to get the oil pan off, I found the #3 rod loose on the crankshaft. Upon removing it the upper bearing is completely gone and the lower bearing is partially there. I’ve been carefully cleaning the the rod journal. 
My IT manual says the rod journal should 2.995”. I have 2.365”ish. I pulled a good rod cap and checked it. The measurements are relatively the same. After measuring further (just with dial calipers to see roughly where I am at) I’m showing .0015” taper from ones side to the other.  I have yet to polish the journal and actually use a mic on this to see where I’m actually at. 
1. I’m guessing this engine has .030” bearings. Does this sound right?
2. Can anyone  edify how much out of round, etc I have for play on this journal.  I was really hoping this would be a quick/easy fix but it’s becoming more and more of a project. 

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Doobletango Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 21 Jun 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 67	Post Options Post Reply Quote Doobletango Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: D17 rod bearings Posted: 23 Jun 2020 at 7:09pm
	I have a series 1 D17 that develop a knocking sound 2 weeks ago. After a lot of digging to get the oil pan off, I found the #3 rod loose on the crankshaft. Upon removing it the upper bearing is completely gone and the lower bearing is partially there. I’ve been carefully cleaning the the rod journal. My IT manual says the rod journal should 2.995”. I have 2.365”ish. I pulled a good rod cap and checked it. The measurements are relatively the same. After measuring further (just with dial calipers to see roughly where I am at) I’m showing .0015” taper from ones side to the other. I have yet to polish the journal and actually use a mic on this to see where I’m actually at. 1. I’m guessing this engine has .030” bearings. Does this sound right? 2. Can anyone edify how much out of round, etc I have for play on this journal. I was really hoping this would be a quick/easy fix but it’s becoming more and more of a project.

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Boss Man Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 03 Mar 2018 Location: Greenleaf, WI Points: 617	Post Options Post Reply Quote Boss Man Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 2020 at 9:37pm
	Double check your measurement or typing. According to my math you have 5/8 of an inch clearance. Thats not possible. If this is a non diesel the rod journal is 2.374. That would mean your crank is .010 under. That amount of taper shouldn't be a huge concern as your clearance is .001-.003. Unless of course your running full load most of the time. Then I would consider pulling the crank and having it machined.

Doobletango Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 21 Jun 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 67	Post Options Post Reply Quote Doobletango Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jun 2020 at 12:33pm
	I’ll recheck my measurements. Maybe I was looking at the wrong specs in my manual because what you’re saying sounds right.

d17brown Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: farley iowa Points: 1729	Post Options Post Reply Quote d17brown Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jun 2020 at 9:24pm
	You were looking t main bearing size. 2.99
	phil

Doobletango Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 21 Jun 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 67	Post Options Post Reply Quote Doobletango Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jul 2020 at 5:42pm
	Yeah, after looking closer I see that. Lol So here’s what I’ve got... I double checked with one of the good journals. Good journal: 2.3645” Questionable journal: 2.3505” Unless my math is wrong, I’m showing .014” wear. My manual says .001”-.003” so I’m WAY out of specs on this. So here’s my next question: am I better off buying a crankshaft with standard size journals, or waiting for a shop to grind this one down after I get the time to take it out? I’d one option better than another?

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22147	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jul 2020 at 6:53pm
	Ask your machine shop to give you a quote on clean, magnaflux and regrind your mains and rods. The rod journals might have to go minus .030" to be true again. Then, have him price you a set of bearings. Now you can compare that total price to a different crank plus bearings for it.

Doobletango Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 21 Jun 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 67	Post Options Post Reply Quote Doobletango Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jul 2020 at 7:14pm
	I’ve never done work on a setup this large-I’m used to small engines where you simply replace the whole connecting rod. Can I re-use the rod with an undersized bearing, assuming there’s no damage to the rod bearing surface?

Boss Man Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 03 Mar 2018 Location: Greenleaf, WI Points: 617	Post Options Post Reply Quote Boss Man Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jul 2020 at 7:22pm
	Unless the rod is twisted, install the under sized bearing and your good to go.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22147	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jul 2020 at 7:30pm
	Not if the old bearing shell has turned or damaged it. Resizing that rods big end would be in order.

Doobletango Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 21 Jun 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 67	Post Options Post Reply Quote Doobletango Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jul 2020 at 7:42pm
	Thanks guys. I thought that was the case. Can the rod be removed from the bottom end without pulling the piston if need be?

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22147	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 Jul 2020 at 7:51pm
	NO.

DSeries4 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 7534	Post Options Post Reply Quote DSeries4 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jul 2020 at 8:50pm
	No such thing as a quick and easy fix when you get a knock in an engine.
	'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080

SteveM C/IL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8680	Post Options Post Reply Quote SteveM C/IL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Jul 2020 at 11:10pm
	Do what it takes to fix it right and be done. Cutting corners there could end up with junk.

DaveKamp Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 6089	Post Options Post Reply Quote DaveKamp Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Jul 2020 at 12:24am
	Unfortunately, piston needs to go out the top in order to remove the wrist pin. Take your mic to that journal again, and check it in the vertical plane, and at 90 degrees to vertical... is the journal round, or out-of-round? Pulling it all down to go through it right would be the 'company line' way to solve it... but if the journal IS still round, and you don't have a bent rod, and you're not expecting brutal service out of it, an undersize bearing insert for an in-situ swap, carefully done, could buy you several years, perhaps more, before having to yank the engine for a full job. IF the big-end needs doctored, you'd hafta lift the piston out of the top anyway, but I know guys that would do some amazingly bold things with very little resources... I won't recommend, but I cannot deny that such things DID work... Realize that way-prior to the D, was the WC, WD, and WD45... the early WCs had shims, and when there was slack, one would simply remove a thin shim. That technology has passed onward with the appearance of replaceable inserts, but there's still validity in the concept. How hard are you gonna work it?
	Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.

Doobletango Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 21 Jun 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 67	Post Options Post Reply Quote Doobletango Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 9:27pm
	Well, I want to be able to run this tractor full throttle so I can mow with it.

frnkeore Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 07 May 2019 Location: Southern Oregon Points: 362	Post Options Post Reply Quote frnkeore Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 2:19am
	If this happened, as you state: Upon removing it the upper bearing is completely gone and the lower bearing is partially there. I’ve been carefully cleaning the the rod journal. I would buy a good used rod to replace it. When that happens, the rod is usually scored, pretty good, it might not be resizable and when they do resized, enough rod material has to taken of to allow it to be resized round. That gives you a little shorter rod and less compression. Personally, I don't like to do that and a used rod might be had for less than resizing.
	Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more.

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22147	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 6:42am
	BUT, I have seen rods from a different generation engine (remember 1953 thru 1975) weigh considerably more or less than the rod that is already in the engine. Resize if it all possible.