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D17 IV Engine Run-on After Shutoff?

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Oldwrench View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Jan 2020
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    Posted: 8 hours 16 minutes ago at 7:43am
This is not a new problem, and has happened occasionally for as long as we have owned the tractor (30+ years?).  The engine is in excellent condition and runs well under all conditions.  The tractor is used only for light work.  Once in a while, and it is hard to predict when, the engine will run-on or run backwards for a bit after shutting the key off.  As a habit I always let it idle for a minute or so before shutdown, even if it has not worked hard or is not up to temp.  It only happens once in a while, and I don't see any pattern to when it might happen.  I put electronic ignition in a few years ago, but it did the same with points. It gets very few hours a year, and the plugs and oil are usually changed out long before they are even dirty.   Is it carburation or electrical?  How bad is it for the engine when it does this?  It typically only does this for maybe 5-10 seconds before finally shutting off.  As I said, it is not necessarily related to its being hot or after a long work session, although I always idle it long enough to cool down if it has been worked.  Carbon buildup in the combustion chamber?  I am curious as to what might cause this.
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Ed (Ont) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 11 minutes ago at 7:48am
Gas or diesel?
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 57 minutes ago at 8:02am
points and plugs so it is a gas engine... Gas engine normally will not RUN with out a spark.. NORMALLY the compression is not enough to get ignition.. Carbon buildup in the top can be a cause..... another Possibility is the ignition switch is worn out and when you turn the key off, you still have an electrical path to the coil to give spark... and the vibration eventually causes the switch contacts to fall off.... I would try a KILL switch to the coil as a TEST to see if the switch is the cause. 
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 35 minutes ago at 8:24am
Slow idle speed of 400 RPM !!!   D-17/G-226 engines with M-code on the serial number are 7.25 to 1 compression and normally aren't prone to doing this if the idle speed is truly 400 RPM and allowed to idle for 30 to 60 seconds.   170/175 engines with 8.0 and 8.25 to 1 compression are far more likely to do this. Higher octane gas will also help. A cranking compression test would verify if it has 7.25 to 1 pistons or not (145 psi). Surely it has been OH'd at some point in its life and maybe it has 170 psi compression.

Edited by DrAllis - 7 hours 33 minutes ago at 8:26am
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Oldwrench View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldwrench Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 41 minutes ago at 9:18am
It did get a overhaul at ~ 3,000 hrs by a very competent AC dealer before we bought it.  It has < 1,000 hrs on it over the last 30 years, with light usage.  Not sure what pistons are in it.  I also forgot to mention that I checked the timing several times, and the advance is working, moving the Fire line up to the middle of the inspection hole at full throttle.  I have never checked the idle speed with an accurate tach, but will do so and make sure it is at 400 rpm.  I just set it to what sounds to be reasonable when I listen to it. 

I'm curious.  What causes this type of run-on that is related to the idle speed? 
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Ed (Ont) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6 hours 7 minutes ago at 9:52am
Oops sorry!! Missed that part. Lol. Smile Smile Maybe check the timing if you have not done so already.
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 48 minutes ago at 10:11am
Agree idle has to be SLOW! Wife doesn't quite close throttle on 45 sometimes and it wants to run on a bit and the knock is frightening. My mechanic dad said that's hard on brgs rings and crank.

Edited by SteveM C/IL - 5 hours 47 minutes ago at 10:12am
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Oldwrench View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldwrench Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 19 minutes ago at 1:40pm
I followed up on Doc's advice, and checked the idle RPM.  On a warm engine, with my trusty old Sears Dwell/Tach from the 60's, I am seeing about 500 RPM at idle, which seems just about right to my ear.  I checked the manual, and it calls for 375-425, so 400 RPM. That sounds really slow to me when I bring it down that low.  Barely running almost.  I guess the main thing is to let it idle for a while at that speed, then shut it off.  I can always leave it higher when just using the tractor.  Anyway, apparently mystery solved, although I would still like to know the root cause of why a slightly higher idle speed at shutdown allows it to run backwards and sound like it is ready to throw the crankshaft out of the oilpan!

Edited by Oldwrench - 2 hours 18 minutes ago at 1:41pm
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