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Dennis IL 
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 Topic: D17 Electrical question Long!
Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 8:18pm |
I would like to hear your idea's because I'm about out of patients. I goofed around with that D17 for 5 hours straight. Usually I can pin it down but not this time. I don't like working with the electrical system on anything to begin with so this is a pain. I started the D17 III to move it out of the way today. When I went restart it later to put it back It wouldn't start. No juice to the starter to even turn it over. It's set up like all D17s in that you turn the key then push the starter button. I noticed the past couple months sometimes I had to turn the key on and off a few times before the push button starter switch would work. Now that leaves me where I am now I don't know if it's the ignition switch OR the starter button. Heck I suppose it could be both. What I don't understand is that I took out my test light and followed juice all the way down to the starter when the Key was on. Then I really goofed up I loosened the ignition switch ring so I could a better look at wiring behind the dash. It all looked connected but when I tightned the ring back up now there is NO Juice when I turn the key on. I went from bad to worse LOL! LOL! Ok sorry for the long post fella's I wanted to try and be accurate. I'll try to pick up a new ignition switch and starter switch tomorrow and start there I guess. Any other ideas? how could I get juice to the starter but it won't turn over before I had no juice at all? Dennis.
Edited by Dennis IL - 28 Nov 2012 at 8:18pm
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Alan (C-IL)
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 8:28pm |
Well, could be a couple things. Switch contacts can corrode over time to the point that they don't make good contact. Sometimes you can see a voltage but if you are pushing a lot of current through the wires, the bad connection won't support the current draw needed to start the engine. I had a very similar problem on our Red 1066 this year. Turn the key on, the gauges light up, but when you hit the starter... nothing. I swapped out the batteries and it started right up. Next time I went to use it... nothign. It ended up being the battery cable clamps between the two batteries. I would check your battery cables, make sure the clamps are tight and not corroded. Check the other large gauge wires for corrossion, and tightness. The start button will drive a relay the makes the high current connection to the starter. You will get an amp or less of current through the start switch. Could be a problem if the switch is bad (not making contact or corroded)
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 8:42pm |
Naw, your post isn't long... go read some of mine!!!  I'll second what Alan said... and add that I've found more bad ignition switches than I care to remember. The BEST test, is to use a jumper wire to BYPASS the ignition switch contacts... and push the starter button... if that doesn't work, then turn the key ON, and bypass the starter button contacts. If that doesn't work, jump from the hot terminal of the ignition switch, to the SOLENOID side of the starter button... if that works, then BOTH are bad. IF that DOESn'T work, jump from the battery to the (small) starter solenoid terminal. that SHOULD work... but if not, either the solenoid is bad, or the battery ground cable is shot. If it only CLICKS, then the battery's HOT power cable is shot.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Alan (C-IL)
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 8:45pm |
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Just make sure the tractor is out of gear and chock the wheels when you are doing all that bypassing. Safety first. Bypassing is a good way to check the switches.
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ctbowles58
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 9:00pm |
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mine done the same thing a couple of weeks ago, it was the starter soleonid.
Edited by ctbowles58 - 28 Nov 2012 at 9:01pm
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190XT 2WD45 WF D15 D14 CA BIG10 302 & 303 bailers 77G rake 80R mower 6 plows and alot more
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Dennis IL
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 9:02pm |
Thank you very much Alan and Dave! I'll try some of these ideas tomorrow. After sitting here thinking on it I think I'm going to get two new switches either way tomorrow (If I can find them) they are both so old now that it's about time. At least that way I can take those two things out of the guess work. If it still doesn't work (and that's how my luck goes sometimes) I might end up rewiring the whole damn thing LOL!........ I can work on a fuel system, take a carburator apart and tinker all day and actually enjoy it but there is something about the electrical system that just chaps my hide! it never fails to get me to cussin out there in the shop LOL! Again thank you both very much. When I get her fired back up I'll let you know what it was...... MAYBE! sometimes I start putting new stuff on these tractors and it starts and I never know what it was that did it LOL!
Edited by Dennis IL - 28 Nov 2012 at 9:03pm
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Dennis IL
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 9:06pm |
 ctbowles58 wrote:
mine done the same thing a couple of weeks ago, it was the starter soleonid. |
When you say same thing do you mean as in turn key and no juice at starter button?
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Gerald J.
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 9:10pm |
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Battery post connections are the prime suspects. Many batteries bath them in acid fumes so the connections go bad. They sometimes allow enough current like an amp for a test light or a few milliamps for a meter, but not 30 or 40 amps to pull in a solenoid, or 300 amps to crank the starter. You can test the battery post connections by adding a load an watch for the voltage to go down while the voltage on the battery posts isn't going down. or you can clean the bejabbers out of each battery post connection. Something 12 volt systems usually need every couple years and 6 volt systems need TWICE a year.
Corrosion does happen other places, but its not as fast to happen because the acid fumes aren't so close.
Gerald J.
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DSeries4
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 9:12pm |
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AGCO has the switches for your Series III.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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ctbowles58
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 9:14pm |
Dennis IL wrote:
ctbowles58 wrote:
mine done the same thing a couple of weeks ago, it was the starter soleonid. |
When you say same thing do you mean as in turn key and no juice at starter button? |
WOOPS--- no i had juce there, but the soleinoid was bad on mine
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190XT 2WD45 WF D15 D14 CA BIG10 302 & 303 bailers 77G rake 80R mower 6 plows and alot more
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Dennis IL
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 9:15pm |
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Well, Now I'm starting to think twice. There are a few thinking battery post connections. I'm going to fall over if that's all it was (although I did clean it up) and the other is brand new a few weeks ago. Either way I probably broke something on the Switch now that I'm not getting any juice to the coil when I turn the key on. GRRR!
Edited by Dennis IL - 28 Nov 2012 at 9:16pm
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Chalmersbob
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 9:25pm |
If your D17 is wired like my D14, the starter button doesn't get it's power throught he ignition switch. You can depress the start button any time and spin the engine. the ignition switch supplies power to the coil only. There is a connection on the starter button that supplies power to the ignition switch. You may have a loose wire there. I would do some more checking before I purchased any switches.
I would remove the battery terminals and clean them real good because dirty terminals cause high resistance. LOL Bob
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4 B's, 1 C's,3 CA's, 2 G's WD, D14, D15, B-1, B10, B12, 712S,
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DSeries4
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 9:42pm |
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The starter switch on a D17 gets juice from the key switch.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Allen Dilg
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 9:48pm |
Hello Dennis Start at the other end, jump the solenoid batt cable end to small terminal it should crank, if not poss solenoid, low voltage, cables, or batt.
If it turns over put test light clip on small wire away from solenoid, turn key on ground probe of test light, push starter button light should come on, if not check at ign sw with test light. moving wires and switches can cause connections to come apart, I know. Please let us know what the problem was. Allen
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Norm Meinert
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 10:01pm |
Dennis, i have the new ing. switch, sarter switch, and soleonid in stock
Norm
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JC-WI
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Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 11:02pm |
Dennis, these guys gave you good advice... I few weeks back I had to go after the electrical system too. It left me jumping connections at the solenoid all fall. But then about the time the first snow started flying, I got busy and took the switch out. The push button was bypassed so it was just turn the key deal and I like it that way.
But they are slip on connectors and they will come off under there. Any old connector that is rusty from what looks like heat needs to be derusted and pinched tighter or replaced... as well as to check the condition of the terminals on the switches. If a lug is loose, it is basically junk. (though I have taken them apart and 'meassage' them back to health).
Check for loose wires and any wires that are taped... Neighbor had problems with his D17 and somebody had just wrapped a wire around another wire to get juice to the coil and it was corroded. So I put new piece of wire on and solderd it. He has been tickled pink since then, cuz it will start every time now and stay running.
But first, Check your battery connections. and check your battery. Couple days ago a fellow had started his car and drove it to town and back. then went to start it to put it in the garage and it wouldn't start. headlights blazed. Put a load tester to the battery... it tested bad... in the 6 volt range! LOL.
I like playing with basic electrical... wiring alt. starters etc... computors, electronics, fine wires.. I hate.
Take your time Dennis and just follow the wires and make sure your solenoid cable connections are good too... as well as at the starter. Had them look good but weren't making connection.
If you weren't so far away, I would come over and help ya. LOL
Edited by JC(WI) - 28 Nov 2012 at 11:06pm
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The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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TimNearFortWorth
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Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 5:40am |
FYI on the OEM style key switches as I just purchased one from AGCO for my D15II. Switch ended up being 71.36 and nut locking ring was 14.63.
Found the switch and locking ring together for 38.00-55.00 after the fact . . . . .
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JC-WI
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Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 6:46pm |
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Hey Dennis, did you dig in and figure the problem out yet?
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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norm[ind]
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Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 7:22pm |
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did a wire come off switch when you were checking it have seen it happen
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DiyDave
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Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 7:30pm |
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Also don't forget to check all grounds, both the wire, and the physical connections. I have had the copper greenies in a cable cause a no-start, in a little diesel, that I bought, at an auction, for a bargain. I walked around the auction, with that hot wire in my hand, twisting it, banging it on stuff, wrapping it in circles, and then straightening it out, again. finally put it back on the motor, as the auctioneer was selling something behind it. Roared to life, into his microphone, he was ticked!
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Dennis IL
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Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 8:11pm |
Well I just walked in and got cleaned up after another full day of looking at wires! The good news is SHE FIRED! It was a crazy day though. Started early running for parts. I stopped at the local AGCO man and picked up a starter switch, and ignition switch. Then off to get two new battery cables (the good ones not those cheap shiney ones) and a new battery. I got home to get started and attempted to take the old battery cable off of the starter solonoid, it was very rusty and on there tight. Finally I felt it give way and then realized it gave way alright!!!!!! the lead twisted right off the solonid! (this is how things go for me believe me!)....... Did you ever have things go like that? one thing right after another to where you just stare in disbelief? I just sat down on a 5 gallon bucket for a minute and was thinking this can't be real! one thing after another like this! and started laughing. Back to the AGCO man for a starter solonoid. I don't want to goof with these wires any time soon so I decided to take my time and do it right. I stripped every single wire I'd be working with to new shiny wire and crimped new fastners on them. Hooked up the solonoid, the new starter switch, and the new ignition switch. Then cleaned up the ground spot to bare metal where the new positive ground cable bolts, and hooked up a new battery. I got ambitious and put a set of points in as well. Said a quick prayer and pushed the starter button and BOY! was she spinning over fast! and it started! I let it run while I was cleaning up my tools. She's smooth as the Prom Queens legs now fella's LOL!.... After all this I'm not exactly sure what the original problem was. I was focused today and didn't feel like testing each thing after I hooked it up. I have a sneaky suspicion it was the Battery cables. One was new but CHEAP! the other was pretty old. Stabbed my finger with my test light too and lost a quart and a half of blood that dripped all over the torque tube but it wouldn't have been a normal project for me if I didn't draw some blood somewhere along the way. A very sincere thank you to all of you who responded to my post and offered help. It gave me things to think about that I couldn't visualize until I went out and looked again this morning. I appreciate the help more than you probably realize. Dennis.
Edited by Dennis IL - 30 Nov 2012 at 11:25am
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Mrgoodwrench
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Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 9:03pm |
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sometimes a bad connection at those solenoids will "Weld" the nut on but still be a bad connection
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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Dennis IL
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Posted: 29 Nov 2012 at 9:14pm |
Mrgoodwrench wrote:
sometimes a bad connection at those solenoids will "Weld" the nut on but still be a bad connection |
That very well could have been buddy because that thing was on there tight I'll tell you that!
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Ted J
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Posted: 30 Nov 2012 at 7:33am |
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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rmlarkin
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Posted: 02 May 2017 at 6:06pm |
Is ok for a coil to run hot on D-17 seer II
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rmlarkin
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Posted: 02 May 2017 at 6:16pm |
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I have a D-17 tractor run a little then shut off it is getting gas I wait a little and then it run a little. I check the coil it is real hot.
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Pete from IL
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Posted: 02 May 2017 at 6:17pm |
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You must have really stabbed that finger deep to lose a quart and a half of blood.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 03 May 2017 at 6:30am |
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This thread was started, and basically stopped five years ago...
Would be better to start a new thread re. 'hot coil'.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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