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budlnbrg 
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Joined: 31 Jan 2014
Location: Perham MN
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 Topic: D17 Diesel to Gas engine swap
Posted: 02 Feb 2017 at 12:10pm |
I have an earlier D17 which was a diesel. The engine was leaking antifreeze into the top of the cylinder due to a bad gasket. The people I spoke to said not to mess with the diesel engine and put a gas engine. I located a 262 engine which is the same block but I am having a few minor issues to resolve. First is the height of the fan due to thee fact that the water pumps are completely different. Second is the governor is different on a D17 then on the combine the engine came from.
Third is the dipstick will have to be moved to the other side of the engine. Can I just drive to plug in the block down into the oil pan and retrieve it from there or do I have to drop the oil pan and drive it up? Any pointers or ideas where I can find information on this would be great Thanks
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tbran
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
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Posted: 02 Feb 2017 at 12:36pm |
swap blocks, pistons, etc. I would retain the diesel for 2 reasons, the diesel is rare and will become a collectable - # 2 you will also need to buy an oil well to refine gas...#3 good luck finding a D19 governor, #4 you will have to rework throttle shaft on carb. #5 you are going to spend some cash on the fan issue - .
A gas 6 cyl d17 would be a novelty and have about 70 hp....
but if you do not have a series IV... you are going to exceed the value of the tractor's worth anyway - my thoughts... as a Debbie downer
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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budlnbrg
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Posted: 02 Feb 2017 at 12:57pm |
LOL, I am beginning to agree with you. I wish I would have researched this before I started on it. The way I heard it from the people who suggested it made it seem much simpler then it is becoming. If I could turn back the hands of time, I would have done it differently. Now I have the gas engine in and I am just working my way through the issues.
I do have the original motor and will probably sell it.
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DSeries4
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 02 Feb 2017 at 9:04pm |
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Don't sell the original motor, you might want to put it back in the tractor. It might be easier to fix it instead of solving the problems with the gasser.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Gary Burnett
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Virginia
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Posted: 03 Feb 2017 at 12:20am |
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A Cockshutt governor from a 30,40 or 50 will work on your engine but to install it you'll need to change the front plates which means pulling the camshaft out and you'll have to fab up the front mounts but you'd have to do that with a D19 governor too.
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HD6GTOM
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Posted: 03 Feb 2017 at 8:42am |
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I would go ahead with that conversion. I have seen several D19's converted years ago. That stuff is around and its a do able swap. good luck with it. You will probably need a plate to cover the fuel pump hole in the block.
Edited by HD6GTOM - 03 Feb 2017 at 8:43am
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budlnbrg
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Posted: 03 Feb 2017 at 9:01am |
Yes, I am going to continue with the swap. At this point its just not practical to go back. I just have to figure out the water pump/fan height issue and the governor issue. Does anyone know of where I can get a picture of the front of the engine on a converted tractor? I do really appreciate all of the opinions and advice!
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Calvin Schmidt
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Posted: 03 Feb 2017 at 11:01am |
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I think that if you get a water pump from a D-17 III or IV diesel you will be OK. The combine water pump will be at the wrong height. Ran into that getting a replacement water pump for my D-17 IV diesel. First they sent a combine pump.
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Pete from IL
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Posted: 03 Feb 2017 at 12:47pm |
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Calvin is right. I did this same swap for my cousin about 6 years ago. You need a water pump from a later D17 diesel. I think I got a rebuilt one from Hi-Capacity . I don't remember exactly what I did for the governor. I think I used the diesel front engine plate and mounted the governor where the injection pump goes. Had to drill a bigger hole in the plate. Ended up putting a different carb on also. The combine carb is made mostly for wide open use. The tractor turned out ok and my cousin uses the tractor all summer for hay and loader work.
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budlnbrg
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Posted: 03 Feb 2017 at 1:11pm |
I looked on Ebay to see if I could find some pictures of the water pump. I was thinking maybe a D19 water pump because a D19 gas would have this same motor. Second thought was maybe the radiator was different. I am going to see if I can find the actual dimensions of a series IV D17 water pump. I can buy one easy enough if it is right. I was able to find some videos of D19 gas tractors. It appears as though the governor housing is the same as the housing from the combine. Is it possible that I only need to change the weights inside? Thanks again!
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Gary in da UP
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Posted: 03 Feb 2017 at 5:32pm |
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I have a WC with a 262 gas engine. What exactly is issue with the fan? Reason I ask is your waterpump mounted to the head or block ? And could you modify / fabricate your fan shroud to solve your problem ? And install a D19 carb and governor for best results.
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8050/8030/185
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Posted: 03 Feb 2017 at 5:56pm |
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I owned a D17D and a D17 gas at the same time. Whoever told you to ditch the diesel has no idea of D17D. Keep it and rebuild the diesel engine. The D17D is so much more tractor and reliable than the gas. A little cold blooded in the winter but well worth plugging it in. The power between the diesel vs gas will amaze you. Just remember to let the diesel cool off after some long work and don't lug it too long. The D19D is where the 262 had most of its problems and because of owner abuse. If plowing, the D17D pulls a 4-14 easily and my D17 gas worked hard with a 3-16, discing D17D with a med 13', D17 gas was working with a 10' med disc. When I went to look for a newer tractor, the D17D sold me so well I stayed with Allis Chalmers.
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budlnbrg
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Posted: 03 Feb 2017 at 6:42pm |
Gary, the issue with the fan is that it is too high. The series IV water pump is about an inch lower even though it mounts the same way. It mounts to the block unlike the diesel which mounted to the head but is lower. That should solve the problem on that.
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BennyLumpkin
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Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 10:32am |
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I'm curious about the governor swap. What's the purpose? I was told the combine one reacts faster. My 45 diesel swapped to 262 gas still has the combine one
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Central PA Allis Express
1934 WC254
1945 WF
1945 WC135755
1951 WD68085
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1957 WD45D-230744D
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budlnbrg
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Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 10:48am |
Benny, I heard that the combine is designed to run at full throttle and a tractor runs at different speeds. Therefore the governor on a combine will tend to want to run wide open. I guess it makes sense to me but I am not that worried about it yet. I have been hearing from people such as yourself who are running with the combine governor with no issues. I am just trying to learn ass much as I can about it and I am hearing many different views.
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 11:29am |
 8050/8030/185 wrote:
I owned a D17D and a D17 gas at the same time. Whoever told you to ditch the diesel has no idea of D17D. Keep it and rebuild the diesel engine. The D17D is so much more tractor and reliable than the gas. A little cold blooded in the winter but well worth plugging it in. The power between the diesel vs gas will amaze you. Just remember to let the diesel cool off after some long work and don't lug it too long. The D19D is where the 262 had most of its problems and because of owner abuse. If plowing, the D17D pulls a 4-14 easily and my D17 gas worked hard with a 3-16, discing D17D with a med 13', D17 gas was working with a 10' med disc. When I went to look for a newer tractor, the D17D sold me so well I stayed with Allis Chalmers. |
I appreciate your engine swap efforts. You'll have a great tractor in the end. But, I second this member's earlier comment. Please keep the d17D's original engine to restore or sell to someone else for a restoration. The 262s head gaskets could be problematic back then. I think that today's newer mfg head gaskets could solve that issue. Please watch this video of a D17D plowing.
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Pete from IL
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Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 12:55pm |
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If your governor is on the left side of the motor you should be ok. When I did the swap we used a 230 gas engine out of an A-2 combine and the governor was on the right side and generator on the left. Backwards for the tractor. That is why we had to change the front engine plate. Everyone has their own opinions but from what I have seen there is no way the diesel engine is more reliable than the gas engine. If the head gasket issue can be resolved that would be a big plus. Also how much do you want to use the tractor in the winter. D17 gas will almost always start in the winter with no block heater. D-17 diesel in winter you better have it plugged in. I think Mack has fire rings for the diesel head that is supposed to solve the head gasket issue. My two cents worth. Pete
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DON G
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Posted: 04 Feb 2017 at 8:55pm |
BennyLumpkin wrote:
I'm curious about the governor swap. What's the purpose? I was told the combine one reacts faster. My 45 diesel swapped to 262 gas still has the combine one |
 Mine does also.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 05 Feb 2017 at 6:58am |
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Combine governors try to make the engine run at Maximum RPM all the time and to use it
the throttle has to be set up to hold the governor back just opposite of the way a tractor throttle is set up.
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budlnbrg
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Posted: 05 Feb 2017 at 7:03am |
The governor is on the left side of the engine. So from what I understand the governor should be OK or maybe just change the weights. I will just leave it as is for now. The dipstick had to be moved to the left side from the right because it was in the way of the starter. The combine engine had the starter on the other side. I looked up images of water pumps and it appear that there are two different water pumps that bolt onto the block. At a glance they look to be the same but they have different heights on the shaft. This will require the shorter of the two. It looks like about 1 inch difference. The original diesel engine water pump mounted on the head but the shaft was lower. I am hearing that the carburetor is different. I am not sure how a different carburetor will work with the governor. I was able to google pics of D19 gas motors and they all seem to have the same governor as mine. If I was able to just look at them both at the same time it would be easy to figure out. I have learned one thing for sure. There was some changes from the first D17 to the last D17. The steering pump was mounted down in the frame at one time by the way it looks. The pics and videos I have found all seem to have the steering pump mounted above the alternator. I am going to mount it up there on this tractor also. The D17 diesel engine block (Buda 262) should be the same engine block as a D19 gas. So basically this should be a D17 with a D19 engine. I will keep the diesel engine until I am done and then find someone who wants it. The head does have a couple hairline cracks by the valves.
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budlnbrg
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Posted: 05 Feb 2017 at 7:07am |
Gary, So will the same governor body and linkage work and it just needs to be set up differently?
Edited by budlnbrg - 05 Feb 2017 at 7:08am
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DrAllis
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Posted: 05 Feb 2017 at 7:14am |
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The actual internal governor between combine and tractor is the same. The linkage is different. A combine is designed to have governor control at FULL THROTTLE only. This is because the harvesting mechanism must run at a certain speed to work properly. It would be considered a full-speed governor. A tractor governor is a variable speed type governor. It controls engine speed from about 1/3 throttle and up. You'll have to look at a D-19 gas engine to see the differences. It is all external.....not internal.
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