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D15 3 Point? |
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Steve Zidlicky
Orange Level Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Bolivar, MO Points: 325 |
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the reason they are both controlled by the same lever is because the internal 3 point lift cylinder and the remote line are hooked together so whichever has the heaviest pressure load on it is the last to work. it is all about equal or unequal pressure. If you will look left and behind the seat you see the remote coupler and it has two steel lines that go to the hydraulic pump. one of those lines is the high pressure and the other returns oil to pump. under the block that those two lines hook to is where the hose goes from the block to the lift cylinder. you cannot see this hose unless the block is removed as the hose is all internal. that whole setup is why and where the fluid goes both directions with only one lever. hope this helps
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DanWi
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: wttn Points: 1705 |
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Just a suggestion take it to a good welder that knows what he is doing and have it fixed maybe you could find a way to reinforce it even. Use it with care knowing that is the weak spot and continue looking for a good replacement, at least that would get you going for now.
Edited by DanWi - 23 Oct 2018 at 9:43pm |
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Tracy Martin TN
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gallatin,TN Points: 10551 |
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A good machine shop could reproduce that part for you. Wouldn't be cheap, but would last. JMHO, Tracy
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No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6604 |
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Ray, I'm still in the hunt for a good drawbar/3 point support casting. I've called the above number a few times and nobody answers. Check your PM for my phone number so you can call me when its convenient for you. Thanks! Or if anyone else has a good one, feel free to PM me with contact info and details. This one........ |
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Don(MO)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Bates City MO. Points: 6862 |
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Try calling Austin Farms Salvage at 660-679-4080, they are in South West Mo.
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6604 |
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Called Austin's already.....nope. Called Hilltop Salvage in Lamar......recording sounded like they had gone out of business. Called Cooks in Clinton......nope. Sandy Lake Brenda......nope. OK Tractor.......nope (and no off the shelf replacement either) Currently watching ebay and trying to reach Ray. For those of you who have had a machine shop make you a replacement, how was that done and what does it look like? Pictures? |
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6604 |
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BTW, what is the best guess as to how many factory 3 point D15's were made to begin with? However many that was, less all those with busted castings, less all those already parted out or potential parts tractors hidden away behind barns or stashed away in barns, may be all that are left to work with. They may be few and far between by now.
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Don(MO)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Bates City MO. Points: 6862 |
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Might try searching for "tractor salvage yards in Missouri"
tractor salvage yards in Kansas and them try searching state by state, might find one out there. Good luck.
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6604 |
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A forum member has sent me these photos of what appears to be an adaption of a SC hitch onto a factory 3 point tractor. Not sure if it is an aftermarket factory make, or someone made this at home. Does anyone recognize it? Although it is not shown, I"m told it also has the ability to accept a drawbar, in which case, it would seem to be what I'm looking for. A hell for stout hitch replacement that fits Cat 1 3 point implements, plus has a drawbar and can be used interchangeably without modification or need to swap options. In the hell for stout category, this has it. Utilizes the SC forward attachment points, including bell. Instead of the cast bracket that has failed, it uses the typical SC drawbar support brackets and 4 holes, including cap screws and stud, plus it has the support arms that go all the way up to snag the top link plate plate fastner holes, and replaces the plate with it's own holes. All the same geometry as the original. This one would take all the stress the tractor could dish out. As a bonus, it seems to take most of the stress off the existing bolt holes. Only downside I can see is the traction boost feature would be lost, but that wouldn't matter to me anyway. Thoughts? PS: (Still no leads on a replacement casting, other than to weld the one I have). |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19504 |
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That is an after-marketer's attempt to put a 3-point hitch on a D-series tractor. What you haven't figured out yet is this.....that frame hangs and PULLS from the same 4 studs/bolts as yours does. That fact that it is plugged into the snap-coupler bell is deceiving. The pulling eye has ZERO tension on the snap-couplers hook and even if it did have tension on it, the coil spring can still yield when yanked on. So, in the end....the same four connection points are doing all the work. I still maintain your (and every other ones) hardware was NOT torqued TIGHT and kept tight. Maybe the broken bracket is weak, but when all 4 studs/bolts aren't working together, they will work loose.
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Jim.ME
Orange Level Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 934 |
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To your question of how a machine shop made a replacement and what it looked like. I have not had one of these made so can not show you photos, but I have had steel replacement parts for different cast parts made over the years, many more complicated than this part. Clean your broken one up good, take it in hand, along with the center to center and the diagonal measurements of the four mounting holes in the housing, and go talk with the shop. There are generally different ways to do things depending on the tooling and materials they have available and they will explain to you how they can do it with their equipment. If they are a "real" shop they won't need, or likely want, you to tell them how you think they should do it. When done it will look very close to the original, but with all 4 mount tabs. And, no it won't be cheap but none of the options, like converting to a snap coupler and building a 3 point to work in conjunction with that, you are kicking around here will be either. You can always check out two or 3 shops if you want to shop it around. JMHO
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TimNearFortWorth
Orange Level Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Points: 2014 |
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Doc, hard to tell but look at the last two pictures.
This unit does pull directly from the SC eye, and the frame system "floats" by being supported by the heavy bar stock frame. The frame is supported by the drawbar hangers, which the aftermarket frame bolts to, plus the frame of the unit hangs off the rear lift housing at the milled flat for the seat mounting. Having two factory 3-pt. D15II units and knowing most have had the lower bracket mounting plate causing damage from being run loose, I have kept this old conversion in-case I needed it when I get around to restoring one of those 3-pt. units as I also use my tractors. That hitch adaptor is on a S1 that I bought for parts years ago. The idea was for MoDirt to post these so Jim D. or someone could possibly ID the brand, or even find one for him if any are still out there. We may just have this one copied at a friends shop so the 3-pt. units can be adapted by adding the SC bell and hanger brackets along with this adaptor. Two things I would do if I use this on one of my 3-pt. units; make a bracket for mounting with two bolts up front like the factory top link and just add strap back to the main frame behind the seat, easy enough to do. Make the drawbar where it extends back for use, or add a section that can be bolted on to extend the DB rearward for light use. These little tractors are just that, little tractors and I consider the D15 3-pt. to be no heavier than the little 8/9N Fords. Would still like to know if anyone recognizes the brand of this adaptor . . . .
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Pat the Plumber CIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Springfield,Il Points: 4677 |
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Modirt , have you tried Bill Deppe , Deppe salvage. He posts on here and he may have one or know where to find one . Somewhere in Iowa
Edited by Pat the Plumber CIL - 29 Oct 2018 at 12:59pm |
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You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails
1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF. |
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6604 |
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Didn't know about Bill.....and don't have his contact info. If he finds this, I hope he will PM me.
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JoeO(CMO)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Cent Missouri Points: 2694 |
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I think that 3 point could be one that alot of after markets were pushing.
I recall farm magazines, used tractor parts sales, Wards, Sears, Central Tractor Parts in IA, and more. I recall but can't swear to it. A neighbor had one on his IH M, maybe a little different the came from Danuser I believe,, but that was 60+ years so I'm a little foggy on it but he was sold on anything Danuser sold. Look in old Farm Magazines from the '50s. It was like anybody with a welder were pushing them. M+W Yetter Coulter
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6604 |
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It occurs to me I failed to update this with a progress report. Have considered a lot of advice......from advocates of the snap coupler conversion to advocates of the factory 3 point.......and for now, have decided to stick with the factory 3 point setup. Will get her back up and running that way, then evaluate how it is looking. After visiting with an AC enthusiast who claims to own somewhere around 250 AC tractors, including several D15's, including a couple D15 restoration projects of his own, his belief was a guy could look for over a year for a pristine replacement casting and not find one. Would probably have to buy a parts tractor to find one. One 3 point assembly, with casting, was made available, but carried a 4 figure price tag. So, a local machine shop has the casting and it will be repair welded, then re-installed. The welders who run the shop, and AC guys who know the shop tell me if they weld it, it should hold. In addition to the casting, they will also be doing some surgery on the drawbar itself, along with side sway turnbuckle chains, which are frozen up.....and one was broken off. Then, we have also had to remove the front traction boost assembly, as the rubber seal mounted on the traction boost lever pin....the seal that holds in all the hydraulic pump oil.....started hemorraging oil after we removed the casting. Probably dried out after sitting for all that time. If the new seal holds, all that is needed is to re-install the 3 point casting assembly and she should be done and ready to run. Will post a photo of the welded up, finished product. |
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Don(MO)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Bates City MO. Points: 6862 |
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Here's a three point. http://www.allischalmers.com/forum/this-guy-has-some-d14-15-things_topic155579.html
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6604 |
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I also saw that in the classifieds, but in the photo provided, I'm not seeing the broken casting, which is the only part I need. As near as I can tell, I already have everything else shown in the photo. Close........but no cigar!!! |
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Don(MO)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Bates City MO. Points: 6862 |
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Did you try calling him to see if he has more parts? here's the call back number (717) 422-0267.
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 7981 |
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Jack of all,master of none...I believe I could fab up a bracket to replace that broken one.May look alot different but would work.
Best thing you can do on reassembly is locktite studs in casting and use nuts on the ends.Might even locktite them.
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JoeO(CMO)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Cent Missouri Points: 2694 |
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Modirt, of the numerous D15's I've had, the first one was damaged like yours, broken DB bracket, studs in transmission and lift housing had been damaged to a point they were welded inside of the housings. All as a result of misuse!How are the mountings in the bottom of the housings?Are you interested in selling?
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6604 |
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That seems to be the general consensus from informed D15 users. And it may be as much neglect and ignorance as to the importance of keeping things tight down there as it is misuse or abuse. Sources tell me if the bolts are kept tight, the hitch as designed is adequate and durable for light duty use.....but if allowed to work loose, the assembly may self destruct and do a lot of collateral damage in the process. Ergo the importance of checking those bolts and keeping things TIGHT! As for the housing holes......I'm not certain what condition they are in. Even though the casting flanges were broken off, the bolts holding up the broken pieces were still holding tight. The only bolt that was loose was the one inserted into the transmission where a stud should have been. It was loose (and dripping oil), but that flange was still intact. The stud that went back in that hole went in tight. If really bad, what options are there other than helicoils or swapping out for a pristine casting off a parts tractor? What is to become of this little jewel once she is back together and running is uncertain. I'm not interested in collections or such......when I started this rehab, tractor was intended to be a user. If it winds up with a gimpy hitch that is unable to do anything other than look pretty and do only very light work, it would be of no use to me.
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Stan R
Orange Level Access Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Location: MA Points: 943 |
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We had a D15 (not sure what series) and beat the crap out of it and never had problems with the 3 point factory system. Hauled manure (high speed thru the fields loaded...), pulled and jerked frozen logs out of the woods, etc. Maybe lucky? Whatever...
Edited by Stan R - 17 Nov 2018 at 9:35am |
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6604 |
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You are not the first person who has offered similar stories. They also claim heavy use with no issues. And just as many others mention failed and broken castings. It's almost as if we are not talking about the same machine. The common thread among all stories is the bolts holding the casting up. Loose bolts = damage. Keep the bolts tight and the hitch can handle it. Or so I'm told. I'm still not convinced it is anywhere near as strong as a snap coupler hitch, but with drawbar or 3 point available with no swapping out of parts, it is a whole lot more handy.
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6604 |
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Is anyone familiar with this 3 point conversion from Cross Manufacturing in MO? Can the draw bar and 3 point be used either or without swapping out or changing anything? Requires conversion back to a snap coupler setup, but I can find the parts to do that. |
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Don(MO)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Bates City MO. Points: 6862 |
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Just call Tony (503)-767-3660 he will fix you up. he will drop ship it to you.
TonysTractors.com Tony Carbaugh Enterprises LLC, 12781 Marion Rd SE, Turner OR 97392, USA Here's the link to Tony's three point hitches.
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3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.
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john(MI)
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: SE MI Points: 9263 |
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I had a Saginaw Tractor Parts 3 point on my D14. They no longer make them. It is labeled to fit the 14, 15 and 17. I got a piece of hardened thread rod. Using break cleaner and a die, i cleaned out all four holes. I put four studs in with locktite. I mounted the three point using double nuts. It did not come lose or break.
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D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6604 |
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Update........things have been quiet here, but been a lot of churning behind the scenes. It has taken me a while to get there, but advice given by Doug above is where I'm going. For starters, direction I'm headed got lined out at the Boonville swap meet, when forum member AJ showed up with this aftermarket 3 point hitch for a SC tractor: Would have bought it but it was already sold. But that confirmed it was the direction I wanted to go. So went back to the welding shop......bracket had not been touched, so picked it all up and brought it home. Found a new welder to look at it.....but he wanted it cleaned up first. This is what I found once all the crap was removed..... At some point in time, bracket has been snapped in half......front and back, and was welded back. Best guess is when weld was completed, the feet were not left entirely flush with each other......so when it was bolted back together, at least two of them were put under strain, so it only took one more good jolt to snap the legs off em. So knowing it had already been snapped in half once, welded and snapped again, this one was not going back......and after 6 months of looking and not finding a replacement.....and having the Cross aftermarket hitch available, that is the direction I went. So we started the conversion back to a SC tractor. Got all the factory 3 point stuff stripped off.....and started scrounging SC pieces off parts tractors and got those cleaned up. To be continued........ |
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6604 |
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So once you abandon the factory 3 point, and go back to the SC attachment points, yet still want to have a functional 3 point and drawbar on the tractor at the same time.....here are some of the options I found. First is to view the factory 3 point itself.......... Missing the drawbar, but you get the idea. A light weight Cat 1 hitch. BTW, only four bolts hold the entire thing on......bolts are spaced 4" front to back and 7 1/4" side to side. Any weight on the drawbar has an incredible amount of leverage on the bolts. Then I found this hitch......which I'm guessing is from Worksaver.......and offered by a few parts vendors.....OK Tractor, YT tractor, to name a few..... https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Allis-Chalmers-D15_3-Point-Conversion-Kit_HK306.html It grafts to the SC bell and 3 point arms........ Much more robust, but at $1,200 +, also expensive.....and has to be made to order. This 3 point adaption was seen on a D15 on the classifieds......described as a "ginger" tractor. This one seems to be using the factory 3 point system, except it has been modified to include the vertical straps that go over the housing above the PTO to support vertical weight......and also looks to me like it has D17 or some other Cat II lift arms (also described as lugs), yet uses the factory 3 point lift links. It has an aftermarket drawbar. No clue where it came from, however. It may be entirely custom & homemade....and no clue what is hanging down below holding it all up. Factory bracket and torsion bar or ????? But looks to be a lot more robust than what the factory came up with. If I could have bought one of those I probably would have. Lastly comes the one from Cross Manufacturing......and one found on numerous aftermarket parts sites....... Drawbar is shown for affect, but not included in the conversion kit. Since I already have the 3 point arms and lift links, I didn't need those. I just needed the cross piece that mounts to the drawbar (unpainted piece in the photo)....plus the drawbar support bracket / yoke / assembly. The conversion kit also includes a sway bar assembly that eliminates the need for sway chains or arms. It slides over the drawbar support and clips into place. Shop already had that. So with most of the SC parts found, what I needed to complete the ensemble was the cross piece and drawbar hanger, and Cross would sell them to use by the piece.....grand total of $175.....actually less than I was quoted to weld up the bracket. We found a WD drawbar that fits and the 3 point lift arms fit just fine. Lastly I needed the support brackets and opted to go for new replacements as all the old ones I could find were worn pretty bad.... |
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modirt
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 6604 |
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These were the replacement L brackets from Heitman Tractor..... Once I get these painted up.....tractor should go back together in a hurry. |
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