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D12 rebuild |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 76976 |
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yes... thats what i was thinking.. I thought the ORIGINAL pistons were caved inward like a dish... You may have pistons that have already been changed out once... You MIGHT be able to buy one of those aftermarket pistons to match yours.... but , note that that kit is 3-9/16 bore , so the pistons would be 3.560 or so ........... you still need to verify what your BORE or PISTON diameter is.
Edited by steve(ill) - 25 May 2022 at 11:53am |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 351 |
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Ok I will verify with the tractor shop.
So I have original pistons? |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 76976 |
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No, i think your motor has been rebuilt sometime in the past... I "think" the 149 inch motors had concave pistons like this.... Maybe someone who knows the details will chime in..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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PaulB
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4374 |
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Yes, FACTORY pistons for the 138,149 & 160 engines all had "Power Crater" (dished) pistons. Those shown from the engine are aftermarket ones. I have NEW 3-1/2" Power Craters pistons and rings, Although no sleeves.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 351 |
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Does it affect performance of the engine
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Lon(MN)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Elk River,MN Points: 1897 |
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I have two D14s. One has the power crater pistons the other has the domed pistons. Both run well. I have used sleeves and power crater pistons.
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http://lonsallischalmers.com
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 351 |
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So I don't need to get original pistons I am fine just getting 1 aftermarket one
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 76976 |
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The BEST solution is that all 4 pistons MATCH IN DESIGN.. Does not matter what that design is, as long as they all MATCH..
Your biggest problem right now is the DOMED piston in the picture is 3-9/16 ( 3.560 inch) and you said your piston might be 3.470 inch .... if you get a NEW piston and NEW liner, then they will fit... but would be BEST if the diameters were the same... Maybe that is not possible at this point.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 351 |
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I currently don't have the money to buy a whole piston kit should I check salvage yards
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 76976 |
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It would be BEST if all 4 pistons matched... You need to CONFIRM what is the diameter of the DOMED piston you have.. Can you get ONE of the 3-9/16 pistons from Yesterdays Tractor to match your 3 ?? If not, then you should get a set of 4... they can be used if you find a good deal. Remember the NEW come with liners and piston rings so you dont have to BUY them extra..
I have never put a motor together with pistons that dont match.. The difference in compression and weight will effect the balance.. You COULD luck out if they are close.. You could also have a potential future problem if they dont match.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Les Kerf
Orange Level Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 564 |
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Best practice is to have them all match.
That said, you might be surprised to know how many car engines have had one cylinder bored out larger than the rest with no one ever being able to tell the difference in the way it ran. These tractor engines run relatively slow and have relatively low specific power output; for moderate usage you would never be able to tell that there was a mismatch. I personally know of one local WD 45 that threw a rod out through the block. The old farmer simply removed everything related to that cylinder, put some fiberglass patching over the hole, and ran it with three cylinders. I wouldn't run mismatched pistons in a competition pulling engine, but anyone who can afford to play that game (I cannot) will be able to also pay for matching parts. |
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 351 |
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I'll check at the salvage yards near me for a match for the other 3 pistions.
If I can't find one I'll get the kit |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 76976 |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 351 |
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I found this site with engine information
https://www.tractordata.com/industrial-tractors/000/4/5/450-allis-chalmers-d-12-engine.html |
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 351 |
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I can't find any pistons online to match the current set and I don't have the money for a brand new engine rebuild kit. Still have to get the size verified by the tractor mechanic near me
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 76976 |
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LIke Les said, its a slow running low HP motor.... so not super critical they all mathc.. BUT still a good idea......YES... you need to verify what is in the tractor TODAY... The ORIGINAL DATA is 60 years old.......... things change.... you know your pistons are somewhat DOMED and that was NOT original.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 351 |
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So it wouldn’t be the end of the world if 3 matched and 1 was different.
Forgot to mention this is a d12 industrial with a back hoe and loader |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 76976 |
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Its not the end of the world.... But you still dont know what is in the tractor now... Hard to look for replacements to even try to match.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 351 |
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Ok I will confirm with the mechanic what's in the tractor currently
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 351 |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19326 |
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That isn't what the other three look like is it ??????? They have to match in looks and bore size !!
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 76976 |
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READ Lons post several up from here..( May 26).....
I have two D14s. One has the power crater pistons the other has the domed pistons. Both run well. I have used sleeves and power crater pistons. Get a set from him and buy new rings for them... You STILL dont know the bore of the 3 you have ..
Edited by steve(ill) - 27 Jun 2022 at 3:14pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 351 |
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I was told it would be fine
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 76976 |
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hunter, it is not FINE, but it "MIGHT" work .... Your taking a chance that the weight and compression "might" be in the ball park with different pistons... You have 3 domed pistons and dont know the diameter. The replacement you show is a crater piston and is 3.5 inch diameter.... It "MIGHT" be OK, but only if you have no other choice.
Lon said he has a set of USED... I would at LEAST check him out and see what the price is..for a matching set. Edited by steve(ill) - 27 Jun 2022 at 3:31pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19326 |
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Lon has TWO sets of used....one set dished.....one set domed. He doesn't have them mixed in an engine.
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 351 |
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I am getting information on those pistons.
Still wondering if I had to if I got the exact same piston dimensions but a different style it would work |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19326 |
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In order to be CORRECT, the pistons must weigh the same, have the same design top and be of the SAME exact compression ratio or the engine will shake and vibrate.
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Les Kerf
Orange Level Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 564 |
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The only valid reasons to use mis-matched pistons are if you are dead broke or the correct parts are simply not available in an acceptable time frame.
Good used pistons are a viable option. Even if it means postponing the purchase of your new I-phone, try to get the correct parts. |
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hunter321
Silver Level Joined: 11 Jan 2021 Location: 52320 Points: 351 |
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I know this is kind of a dumb question but could I hook up a small trailer to my truck and lay the loader of the d12 on it and strap it down and pull it home like that.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19326 |
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A loader mounted on a D-12 ? Lift up the bucket and back the trailer under the bucket ?? Let the bucket down on the trailer and strap the bucket to the trailer so you can pull the tractor home ?? How many miles are we talking ??? You'd be a lot safer having the bucket raised up 2 ft, blocked with angle iron stops on the cylinders and having someone PULL you home with a tow rope at speeds no more than 10 MPH.
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