| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
FREEDGUY 
Orange Level Access
Joined: 15 Apr 2017
Location: South West Mich
Points: 5391
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: D 21 Tranny ??
Posted: 08 Jan 2021 at 5:49pm |
The recent post about the '21 got me wondering about the drivetrain of the beast. Was the tranny/rear end a "beefed up" D series tranny, was it it's "own" animal" as far as the tranny ? Did it suffer the same ailment as the 190 as far as failures ?? There were not many '21's in our area, 210's and 220's though  . Thanks
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Kansas99
Orange Level Access
Joined: 26 Feb 2015
Location: W Kansas
Points: 4863
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jan 2021 at 8:40pm |
|
Don't know about the tranny but the rearend was beefed up with heavier gears in the early ones. The heavier gears included grinding out the cast to get them to fit is my understanding, I'm sure someone will be along to explain it right.
|
|
"Thank you for your service Joe & the Ho"-----Joseph Stalin
|
|
MACK
Orange Level
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Points: 7664
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jan 2021 at 9:16pm |
|
Transmission was strong, but bull pinion were weak. MACK
|
|
DSeries4
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 7332
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jan 2021 at 9:22pm |
It is a hell of a lot bigger than the other D series transmissions! They are both straight 4 speeds, so I am sure there are some similarities in design. I have not heard of any jumping out of gear, but it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Remember: Gear jumping was the result of operator abuse. My local AC guru has been pulling with a D21 with the stock transmission and rear end for close to 40 years and has not had any problems. That's with around 1000 hp in front of it! Search "Killer Allis" on youtube.
|
|
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20487
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jan 2021 at 9:43pm |
|
The D-21 final drive was the weak link in the driveline. The bull gears had the inside axle bearing outside of the bull gear instead of on the inside like a D-19/190. The bull gears and bull pinion gears were too narrow for 127.75 PTO HP. They were probably OK for the original 103 HP without a turbo. The 210/220 addressed the final drive weakness by making things much bigger and locating that inner axle bearing on the inside of the bull gear. The transmission was never changed.
|
|
SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8239
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jan 2021 at 10:08pm |
|
The trannys look just like a WD45 only BIGGER! Snap rings set brg play. D21-220 same trans.
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20487
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jan 2021 at 6:49am |
|
The D-21 tranny was a change in design theory for A-C. First, it was located directly under the clutch/brake pedals and directly attached to the bellhousing, much like a WC, and was a stand-alone gearbox. It was 4-speeds that were closer ratio than anything they had made before. It coupled up to the rear-end, which had a wide-ratio two-speed range transmission. This allowed you to shift 1 thru 4 in low range and then shift to high range and start over with 1 thru 4. It was clearly different than anything they had built up to that time.
|
|
tbran
Orange Level
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
Points: 3294
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jan 2021 at 9:04am |
|
There was ability to update on the first bull gears, wider ones, required some grinding to make the bull gears fit in some cases. The late Ernest Cook who worked for Johnson at Mayfield Ky related this info to us decades ago. He had some of the narrow gears in the back of his shop at Sharon Tn. Also there was an early and late differential.
|
|
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
|
|
Calvin Schmidt
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario Can.
Points: 4525
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jan 2021 at 9:57am |
The D21 transmission/rear end was the first one designed for independent live PTO. Later D10/12's were a retrofit design. The killer on the final drives was too much torque, not horsepower. Friend had a D21 new and it was great without problems until it went back to the dealer after a few years and they discovered it was putting out 175hp. They had just been driving fast. Dealer turned it back to 135 hp and they had to drop a gear or two and then the final drive problems began. Wheel spin is what saves the final drives for pullers
|
|
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
|
|
FREEDGUY
Orange Level Access
Joined: 15 Apr 2017
Location: South West Mich
Points: 5391
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jan 2021 at 5:03pm |
|
Thanks for all of the replies gentlemen, did the '21 have a PD like the previous D series/100 series ??
|
|
DougG
Orange Level
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Mo
Points: 8106
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Jan 2021 at 7:00pm |
|
No they they did not - all gear driven,
Edited by DougG - 09 Jan 2021 at 7:01pm
|
|
ncpackfan39
Bronze Level
Joined: 31 Jan 2024
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 13
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Mar 2024 at 9:07am |
Hello, I’m looking for Allis Chalmers D21 PTO clutch Brake assembly parts. Pictures from the parts manual have the pieces circled that I'm specifically looking for. The parts are the brake assembly parts which are forward of the PTO clutch. If anyone has any of these, feel free to let me know at 919-273-6643. Thanks in advance for any info you might have.  
|
|
Calvin Schmidt
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario Can.
Points: 4525
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 at 7:42am |
|
Years ago now, my AC mechanic checked the PTO clutch on my D21. He commented that it was (or looked ) the same as a D series powered director clutch pack. The one side was locked to the main housing to serve as the PTO brake. Can anyone verify this ?
|
|
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20487
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 at 7:48am |
|
Similar design adapted to the D-21. The differences are the clutch housings depth to accommodate 7 discs on the power side and 2 discs on the brake side. A D-19/175 tractors had 4 discs in high and 5 discs in low for a total of nine driving discs.
|
|
SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8239
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 at 8:25am |
|
Calvin is spot on about torque being the killer. Deere mechanic told how when 30 series IIRC came out they were instructed by corporate to NOT touch the fuel pumps! Later at a block meeting everyone was failing transmission parts except the dealer he worked for. The big guy ask my friend why everyone but them was having trouble. He smiled and said he didn't know.
|
|
Calvin Schmidt
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario Can.
Points: 4525
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 at 9:00am |
Thanks for the PTO clutch info DR. Would this be the same for the 210/220 ? OneNinety ?
|
|
Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20487
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 at 9:36am |
|
No. All different design and hydraulic pressure applied clutch and brake. 180 thru 200 pretty much the same parts. 210-220 identical parts.
|
|
ncpackfan39
Bronze Level
Joined: 31 Jan 2024
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 13
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Mar 2024 at 10:25am |
|
That is all good info. I appreciate the discussion. The part I’m looking for is the part that attaches to the inside of the rear housing that enable the PTO brake to do its job. I was curious if any other models used the same parts. Thanks for the discussion on that.
|
|
