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BrianC 
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Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Location: New York
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 Topic: Crawler track chain
Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 8:37am |
Do crawler track chains use any sort of seals? Like motorcycle drive chains, some have o-rings, some have standard chain (no o-ring). If it has been done both ways, what is modern preference?
I took a look in HD4 and HD41 parts manuals and did not see any seals.
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Lee Bradley
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Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Location: Kingston, WA
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Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 10:33am |
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Lee Bradley
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Location: Kingston, WA
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Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 10:35am |
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When I tried the link after posting, it added %20 to the link. Remove the %20 and it works.
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Codger
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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
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Posted: 31 Mar 2022 at 3:47pm |
From my HD-11 Series B manual. The seals are denoted as #5 on the diagram:
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BrianC
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Posted: 01 Apr 2022 at 5:35pm |
Thanks for the information. Looking at the construction I would call the track chain type to be "roller-less, all 1/2 links". The bushing that engages the drive sprocket does not rotate. This probably really helps to keep the dirt out.
Watched a lot of YouTube videos of track repair. It's beastly, everything is heavy! In the field, man handling some hydraulic chain press. Eyeballing it up to press the pins out. What if it is cold and raining? Looks like fun!
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DMiller
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
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Posted: 01 Apr 2022 at 6:37pm |
Just old school stuff, to press any other pin and bushing out than the master, you have to press the last link set apart as well as the chain will only part at the press in master.
Dry Pin rails were typical until the 1970s as SALT or Sealed And Lubricated Track rails become more prevalent.
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Lazyts
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Posted: 01 Apr 2022 at 8:39pm |
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Allis Chalmers actually is credited with the first sealed track chain, I think they developed it around 1964. Allis actually used a rubber seal ring in their tracks, at least for a time, as compared to the old Caterpillar sealed track chain that used concentric ring washers as a seal. The rubber seals have been obsolete for quite some time now, but some track shops would use the Cat rings as alternative seals when turning the pins and bushes. Now manufacturers have gone to SALT, and then to System One and other more advanced track systems.
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DMiller
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Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 5:04pm |
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System One CAT UC are trash, no longevity, everything seems to fail at same time, Idlers Rollers Rails even segments, many contractors around here that bought tractors so equipped raised so much grief the Cat houses paid PARTIAL in house warranty to change the machines over to Conventional Rail systems, average TWICE the wear time in service.
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DMiller
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Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 5:58am |
Will add this tidbit, all too many see smooth or slightly worn Outer Bushings radius on rails, if are Dry Pin Rails that is less than 20% of the wear area that occurs to these. Internally Pin to Bushing wear is unseen, can only be visualized by measurement and determination of that wear value. on average less than 1/8" of Pin to bushing wear is 100% worn out, on my 7G or a HD11 or 11B the max wear value to replace or turn bushings was .115". IF run beyond that the wear expands to ends of the bushing forming hour glass internal dimensions and can only be determined once taken apart or issues as Severe Snaking of the rails, roll offs of rails no matter how well adjusted and climbing the idler or sprocket will occur.
The ONLY fix for the last condition is replace the rails. Pins alone will not change, bushings alone will help some but then have pin radius wear and face wear of rail sections where ride on idlers and rollers. Rail wear is a determinable value but have to look past remaining grouser height on shoes, remaining outer face value of bushings and remaining height of rail sections from face wear.
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Codger
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Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 7:34am |
 Here is a page from an HD11 manual of a track chain link:
Edited by Codger - 03 Apr 2022 at 7:35am
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DMiller
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Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 5:12pm |
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Bushings press in Hole D, pins are pressed into hole E and thru the Next bushing. The upper edge of the segment in the Photo is the 'Face' where as wears against the Idler will develop a centered wear area with displaced flanges and will not roll smoothly under lower rollers. 7.0p was last used by Allis and International.
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BrianC
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Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 5:32pm |
I read that the Cat One system has rotating bushings. Does it have twice the number of seals? Does Cat still make System One track or very similar?
Just happened to be talking to a sand and gravel operation owner this morning. So naturally I pestered him with questions. He said his favorite machine was the International TD-15. And he didn't mess with taking apart the track and rotating bushings. He would just replace them with new. I thought he said $14K. Is that for one side or both, and what era ('80's?), I don't know. He really liked the International 6 cyl engine (DT466).
Interesting.
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DMiller
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Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 5:50pm |
Cat system one has multiple seals for the pins bushings and roller bushing, it has Inner rail links and outer rail links so CANNOT just remove One set, think Chain Saw Chain style. LOADS of wear areas and hard to keep from leaking. Those that like them and Yes, they are still sold, DO replace with the same style. These are run to destruction rails, no p& b turns ever.
Std UC rebuild set of parts, Segments, rollers, upper carriers, Idlers and seals for Tensioner with all new bolts and nuts for a 963B will set you back close to $24k, a D7E with similar Oval set up $22-26K without or with shoes, a D10 System One $42k. JUST Parts.
Edited by DMiller - 03 Apr 2022 at 5:53pm
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