|
Crap. Lots of smoke AC15II |
Post Reply 
|
| Author | |
Danvilletim 
Bronze Level 
Joined: 05 Oct 2020 Location: Bluffton, SC Points: 14 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Crap. Lots of smoke AC15IIPosted: 16 Oct 2020 at 2:22pm |
|
Okay. Got this AC15II two weeks ago and finally got a landpride rcf2060 brush hog. Made up 4 laps around the meadow and hit a stubborn patch of brush. Tractor stopped and couldn’t get the 3 point to raise. Smoke started coming out right behind engine (see video). I use the lever to disengage the PTO and it breaks off!
So crap! I can’t disconnect to axle to the Bush hog. I guess because PTO is still in gear? I got a semi local tractor shop ( Steen Enterprises) where I got the bush hog is going to pick it up next week but want to get some ideas of what’s wrong and what the fix will likely be in terms of hours.
|
|
 |
|
| Sponsored Links | |
|
|
|
CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level 
Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22656 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 2:31pm |
|
Sounds like you smoked the engine clutch. Everything runs off that, forward motion, PTO and hydraulics. None of these will work if the clutch is burned up completely. It would also be possible that your flywheel is cracked beyond use, if the clutch has been slipping for a long time and you hadn't noticed it.
|
|
|
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
|
|
|
|
Jim.ME
Orange Level
Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 589 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 4:25pm |
|
Looks like the engine clutch is toast as others posted. Looks like the tractor gets split for a clutch replacement and maybe flywheel. Whether your PTO control lever can be weld back on to the shaft, without teardown, remains to be seen
I can't tell from your videos for certain, but it looks like you don't have a slip clutch on the cutter gearbox shaft. If you do it seems like it was not properly adjusted or it is stuck. If not have one you really should consider investing in one. Slip clutch is much easier than shear bolts on drivelines, tractor and PTO, and cheaper to repair. When you use the lever to lift the cutter you are not leaving it locked in the up position are you?
Edited by Jim.ME - 16 Oct 2020 at 4:26pm |
|
|
|
|
Brian Jasper co. Ia
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Prairie City Ia Points: 10372 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 4:43pm |
|
That is smoking clutch. It was weak and looks like you finished it off. It should have been able to stall the engine. There's a member on here and most of the Facebook A-C tractor pages, Rick Corder, who rebuilds clutches. You'll get a better quality rebuild than most of the big name rebuilders for 1/3 to 1/2 less.
That PTO lever is repairable. It looks like someone's welding left a bit to be desired. You'll want to remove the shaft to weld. There's an O ring close to the surface that probably wouldn't survive welding. Since it's going to be apart for a clutch, it won't be as bad to split it in the rear for the lever. It would also be a good time to check and adjust the hand clutch if necessary.
|
|
|
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
|
|
|
|
|
Danvilletim
Bronze Level
Joined: 05 Oct 2020 Location: Bluffton, SC Points: 14 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 5:03pm |
|
This is great info. I’m going to have to get someone to do this work. Not me. Sucks taking it to a major dealer who is going to charge a ton. How many hours would you guest a mate? I also have some leaking around the PTos.
Does the mechanic need to be familiar with AC? Anyone near Savannah? |
|
|
|
|
Danvilletim
Bronze Level
Joined: 05 Oct 2020 Location: Bluffton, SC Points: 14 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 5:04pm |
|
Also, 3rd pops out of gear. Should this be addressed at same time?
|
|
|
|
|
DiyDave
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 36460 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 5:41pm |
|
Fried clutch, as others have said. Personally if it were mind, I'd have the tranny looked at too, but that's just me. My advice would be to talk to local farmers and construction guys, and see if they can recommend a mechanic, who could work on it either at his shop, or in your barn. Clutch can take 4-5 hrs, add about the same for the tranny...
|
|
|
Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
|
|
|
|
|
CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22656 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 7:00pm |
|
Popping out of gear, is caused by the operator trying to shift on the go and grinding the splines on the gear and collar. Shifting should only be done when the back wheels are stopped.
The only thing you can shift on the fly, is the power director(hand clutch). Parts aren't cheap for that, and it involves quit a bit of labor. I did my WD45 myself, but it involves removing the wheels, final drives, differential and pulling the pinion shaft out of the transmission. LOTS of parts to get back in the right place on re-assembly. |
|
|
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
|
|
|
|
CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22656 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 7:05pm |
|
If there is a slip clutch on the mower deck, they are supposed to be reset every year at the beginning of mowing season. They have to be loosen up enough to make them slip, to burn off any rust that has built up, then reset to the proper tension for the horse power you are using to run it.
If you don't do that, and the clutch plates rust up and stick, you will end up destroying your PTO internals. |
|
|
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
|
|
|
|
DSeries4
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 6065 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 8:41pm |
|
Getting someone to do the clutch, PTO lever and transmission can cost you more than what the tractor is worth. Parts for the transmission alone will run $1000 (minimum) and it has to be taken completely apart - lots of labor. Labor will add up for these jobs. Just want to make you aware that it's not going to be cheap.
|
|
|
'49 G, '54 WD45, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '85 6080
|
|
|
|
|
MACK
Orange Level
Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 6409 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 9:06pm |
|
PTO lever, drill lever hole to same size as shaft. Hold lever over shaft and weld back on. Run water around shaft as soon as welding is done to cool oring. Have done a lot of them over the years with no problem.
Transmission , I would fix other problems first, then see how tractor works out. MACK
|
|
|
|
|
Danvilletim
Bronze Level
Joined: 05 Oct 2020 Location: Bluffton, SC Points: 14 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 5:21pm |
|
it was a brand new rotary cutter. All set up by the dealer. Sounds like it didn’t slip? Could that be true?
|
|
|
|
|
Danvilletim
Bronze Level
Joined: 05 Oct 2020 Location: Bluffton, SC Points: 14 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 5:24pm |
|
is there a way to test the performance of the PTO at the shop?
|
|
|
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 13047 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 5:30pm |
|
My money says you have zero free-play in your clutch pedal, causing the foot clutch to slip. The PTO lever is an in/out sliding coupler. When disengaged you can turn the PTO shaft by hand standing behind the tractor.
|
|
|
|
|
Stan IL&TN
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elvis Land Points: 6531 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 1:33am |
|
I would not expect it to slip in a stubborn patch of brush but what I call a stubborn patch of brush and what you call it may be far apart. I would expect it to slip when the blade hits an immoveable object like a stump, rock or tree bigger than the mower is designed to cut in my opinion, others may differ. But you can set it so it will slip at any amount you desire from light weeds to heavy brush. Setting it so it would slip sooner may have well prolonged your foot clutch but I suspect it was already weak to start with.
|
|
|
1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
|
|
|
|
Gary Burnett
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Points: 2342 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 5:07am |
The foot clutch should be able to hold well enough to choke the tractor.
|
|
|
|
|
Jim.ME
Orange Level
Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 589 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 6:10am |
|
I agree with those saying it is likely your foot clutch was weak to begin with. As Stan IL&TN said we don't know what you are calling a stubborn patch of brush. I use a older heavy duty 3 point 6 footer on a D14 and don't have problems with 1" to 2" brush, like clumps of alders.
I know looks are deceiving at times but from looking at pictures and videos of similar Landpride cutters, compared to what I see in your videos, it looks like you PTO shaft guard is further inside the gearbox guard than some. Those show the bell on the shaft guard is at the front of the gear box guard and some of those you can see the slip clutch inside the guard. From that it just looks like yours is a shear bolt setup to me. Does yours have a slip clutch or a shear bolt? I think shear bolts are standard, slip clutches are options on most. If it is a shear bolt you will want to keep a handful of the specified grade 2 shear bolts on hand. You might want to consider an overrunning clutch as well to prevent the inertia from the cutter driving the tractor when you push the clutch to stop.
|
|
|
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 13047 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 6:22am |
|
Before you weld the PTO lever back on, use a vise grips and shift it into neutral. Now the PTO lever is straight up at 12 noon.
|
|
|
|
|
Danvilletim
Bronze Level
Joined: 05 Oct 2020 Location: Bluffton, SC Points: 14 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 7:34am |
|
the pto lever is cut off flush. Nothing to put a vice grip to unfortunately. Would it make sense that the brush cutter can’t be unhooked while the PTO is engaged?
|
|
|
|
|
Danvilletim
Bronze Level
Joined: 05 Oct 2020 Location: Bluffton, SC Points: 14 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 7:38am |
|
btw... what kinda of entry level welder would be appropriate to weld that lever back on?
|
|
|
|
|
Gary Burnett
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Points: 2342 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 7:49am |
Welding that lever back on isn't an amateur hour job get someone with welding experience to do it right.
|
|
|
|
|
Strokendiesel002
Silver Level 
Joined: 04 Apr 2019 Location: 53158 Points: 130 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:25am |
|
Firstly, nice looking tractor.
It's going to be a bit difficult to remove without disengaging the PTO, yes. If the PTO is engaged and coupled to the implement I wouldn't try starting it. I assume that it's not in an ideal position to be disconnected from the 3pt. Or were you referring to uncoupling the PTO being more difficult now? If the implement is also stuck, yes, it's going to be an exercise. Also, as mentioned, if you don't have one, an over running clutch adapter should be between the PTO and cutting implement. Could save your life and/or parts on the tractor if you have to come to a stop quick. |
|
|
|
|
Jim.ME
Orange Level
Joined: 19 Nov 2016 Location: Maine Points: 589 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:29am |
No, it does not make sense that the brush cutter can't be unhooked while the PTO is engaged. The connection of the drive shaft to the cutter is not related to PTO engagement. The cutter can be unhooked with the tractor not running and even if the PTO engaged. It just won't be a easy as it would be with a properly functioning tractor. Put the transmission in neutral. The shaft from the cutter should easily unhook from the tractor PTO shaft, as it normally would. You may need a big bar to move the cutter itself around to get the pins free of the 3 point draft arms and you might want a hammer and punch in case you have to tap them out.
Edited by Jim.ME - 18 Oct 2020 at 8:30am |
|
|
|
|
DaveKamp
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 4296 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 10:29am |
|
If the PTO shaft is bound up tight enough to not disengage, the reason is probably because the driveline of the tractor is still engaged also... there's just enough tension between the implement's mechanicals and the wheels' drive to prevent disengatement. If the tractor's gearshift isn't in neutral, it'd explain this. If the transmission IS in neutral, then things are more interesting. With the PTO lever broken off, if the transmission is stuck in gear, extracting the tractor will be tricky, as the mower will want to spin on any attempt to roll the tractor. If it were me, I'd probably drag a floor jack out to the field, shove it under the mower deck lip atop a plank, and lift up the deck far enough to allow the blades to swing free, then try disconnecting the PTO shaft.
|
|
|
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
|
|
|
|
|
Tracy Martin TN
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gallatin,TN Points: 9600 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 10:48am |
|
If the PTO drive line ain't bent, unhook the cutter and pull forward. Pto driveline should slip apart. HTH Tracy
|
|
|
No greater gift than healthy grandkids!
|
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
|
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
Stan IL&TN wrote: