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Crap. Lots of smoke AC15II

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Danvilletim View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 2:22pm
Okay. Got this AC15II two weeks ago and finally got a landpride rcf2060 brush hog.  Made up 4 laps around the meadow and hit a stubborn patch of brush.  Tractor stopped and couldn’t get the 3 point to raise.   Smoke started coming out right behind engine (see video).  I use the lever to disengage the PTO and it breaks off!

So crap! I can’t disconnect to axle to the Bush hog.  I guess because PTO is still in gear? 

I got a semi local tractor shop ( Steen Enterprises) where I got the bush hog is going to pick it up next week but want to get some ideas of what’s wrong and what the fix will likely be in terms of hours.



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CTuckerNWIL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 2:31pm
Sounds like you smoked the engine clutch. Everything runs off that, forward motion, PTO and hydraulics. None of these will work if the clutch is burned up completely. It would also be possible that your flywheel is cracked beyond use, if the clutch has been slipping for a long time and you hadn't noticed it.
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 4:25pm
Looks like the engine clutch is toast as others posted.  Looks like the tractor gets split for a clutch replacement and maybe flywheel.  Whether your PTO control lever can be weld back on to the shaft, without teardown, remains to be seen

I can't tell from your videos for certain, but it looks like you don't have a slip clutch on the cutter gearbox shaft.  If you do it seems like it was not properly adjusted or it is stuck.  If not have one you really should consider investing in one.  Slip clutch is much easier than shear bolts on drivelines, tractor and PTO, and cheaper to repair.

When you use the lever to lift the cutter you are not leaving it locked in the up position are you?


Edited by Jim.ME - 16 Oct 2020 at 4:26pm
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Brian Jasper co. Ia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 4:43pm
That is smoking clutch. It was weak and looks like you finished it off. It should have been able to stall the engine. There's a member on here and most of the Facebook A-C tractor pages, Rick Corder, who rebuilds clutches. You'll get a better quality rebuild than most of the big name rebuilders for 1/3 to 1/2 less. 
That PTO lever is repairable. It looks like someone's welding left a bit to be desired. You'll want to remove the shaft to weld. There's an O ring close to the surface that probably wouldn't survive welding. Since it's going to be apart for a clutch, it won't be as bad to split it in the rear for the lever. It would also be a good time to check and adjust the hand clutch if necessary.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Danvilletim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danvilletim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 5:03pm
This is great info. I’m going to have to get someone to do this work. Not me. Sucks taking it to a major dealer who is going to charge a ton. How many hours would you guest a mate? I also have some leaking around the PTos.

Does the mechanic need to be familiar with AC? Anyone near Savannah?
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Danvilletim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danvilletim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 5:04pm
Also, 3rd pops out of gear.   Should this be addressed at same time?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 5:41pm
Fried clutch, as others have said.  Personally if it were mind, I'd have the tranny looked at too, but that's just me.  My advice would be to talk to local farmers and construction guys, and see if they can recommend a mechanic, who could work on it either at his shop, or in your barn.  Clutch can take 4-5 hrs, add about the same for the tranny...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 7:00pm
Popping out of gear, is caused by the operator trying to shift on the go and grinding the splines on the gear and collar. Shifting should only be done when the back wheels are stopped.
 The only thing you can shift on the fly, is the power director(hand clutch).
 Parts aren't cheap for that, and it involves quit a bit of labor. I did my WD45 myself, but it involves removing the wheels, final drives, differential and pulling the pinion shaft out of the transmission. LOTS of parts to get back in the right place on re-assembly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 7:05pm
If there is a slip clutch on the mower deck, they are supposed to be reset every year at the beginning of mowing season. They have to be loosen up enough to make them slip, to burn off any rust that has built up, then reset to the proper tension for the horse power you are using to run it.
 If you don't do that, and the clutch plates rust up and stick, you will end up destroying your PTO internals.
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 8:41pm
Getting someone to do the clutch, PTO lever and transmission can cost you more than what the tractor is worth.  Parts for the transmission alone will run $1000 (minimum) and it has to be taken completely apart - lots of labor.  Labor will add up for these jobs.  Just want to make you aware that it's not going to be cheap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2020 at 9:06pm
PTO lever, drill lever hole to same size as shaft. Hold lever over shaft and weld back on. Run water around shaft as soon as welding is done to cool oring. Have done a lot of them over the years with no problem.
Transmission , I would fix other problems first, then see how tractor works out.      MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danvilletim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 5:21pm
it was a brand new rotary cutter.  All set up by the dealer.  Sounds like it didn’t slip? Could that be true?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danvilletim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 5:24pm
is there a way to test the performance of the PTO at the shop? 

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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 5:30pm
My money says you have zero free-play in your clutch pedal, causing the foot clutch to slip. The PTO lever is an in/out sliding coupler. When disengaged you can turn the PTO shaft by hand standing behind the tractor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan IL&TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 1:33am
I would not expect it to slip in a stubborn patch of brush but what I call a stubborn patch of brush and what you call it may be far apart.  I would expect it to slip when the blade hits an immoveable object like a stump, rock or tree bigger than the mower is designed to cut in my opinion, others may differ.  But you can set it so it will slip at any amount you desire from light weeds to heavy brush.  Setting it so it would slip sooner may have well prolonged your foot clutch but I suspect it was already weak to start with. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Burnett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 5:07am
Originally posted by Stan IL&TN Stan IL&TN wrote:

I would not expect it to slip in a stubborn patch of brush but what I call a stubborn patch of brush and what you call it may be far apart.  I would expect it to slip when the blade hits an immoveable object like a stump, rock or tree bigger than the mower is designed to cut in my opinion, others may differ.  But you can set it so it will slip at any amount you desire from light weeds to heavy brush.  Setting it so it would slip sooner may have well prolonged your foot clutch but I suspect it was already weak to start with. 


  The foot clutch should be able to hold well enough to choke the tractor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 6:10am
I agree with those saying it is likely your foot clutch was weak to begin with.  As Stan IL&TN said we don't know what you are calling a stubborn patch of brush.  I use a older heavy duty 3 point 6 footer on a D14 and don't have problems with 1" to 2" brush, like clumps of alders.   

I know looks are deceiving at times but from looking at pictures and videos of similar Landpride cutters, compared to what I see in your videos, it looks like you PTO shaft guard is further inside the gearbox guard than some. Those show the bell on the shaft guard is at the front of the gear box guard and some of those you can see the slip clutch inside the guard.  From that it just looks like yours is a shear bolt setup to me.  Does yours have a slip clutch or a shear bolt?  I think shear bolts are standard, slip clutches are options on most.  If it is a shear bolt you will want to keep a handful of the specified grade 2 shear bolts on hand.  You might want to consider an overrunning clutch as well to  prevent the inertia from the cutter driving the tractor when you push the clutch to stop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 6:22am
Before you weld the PTO lever back on, use a vise grips and shift it into neutral. Now the PTO lever is straight up at 12 noon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danvilletim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 7:34am
the pto lever is cut off flush.  Nothing to put a vice grip to unfortunately.  Would it make sense that the brush cutter can’t be unhooked while the PTO is engaged?
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Danvilletim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danvilletim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 7:38am
btw... what kinda of entry level welder would be appropriate to weld that lever back on?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Burnett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 7:49am
Originally posted by Danvilletim Danvilletim wrote:

btw... what kinda of entry level welder would be appropriate to weld that lever back on?


Welding that lever back on isn't an amateur hour job get someone with welding experience
to do it right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strokendiesel002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:25am
Firstly, nice looking tractor.

It's going to be a bit difficult to remove without disengaging the PTO, yes. If the PTO is engaged and coupled to the implement I wouldn't try starting it. I assume that it's not in an ideal position to be disconnected from the 3pt.

Or were you referring to uncoupling the PTO being more difficult now?

If the implement is also stuck, yes, it's going to be an exercise.

Also, as mentioned, if you don't have one, an over running clutch adapter should be between the PTO and cutting implement. Could save your life and/or parts on the tractor if you have to come to a stop quick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 8:29am
Originally posted by Danvilletim Danvilletim wrote:

the pto lever is cut off flush.  Nothing to put a vice grip to unfortunately.  Would it make sense that the brush cutter can’t be unhooked while the PTO is engaged?

No, it does not make sense that the brush cutter can't be unhooked while the PTO is engaged.  The connection of the drive shaft to the cutter is not related to PTO engagement.  The cutter can be unhooked with the tractor not running and even if the PTO engaged.  It just won't be a easy as it would be with a properly functioning tractor.  Put the transmission in neutral.  The shaft from the cutter should easily unhook from the tractor PTO shaft, as it normally would.  You may need a big bar to move the cutter itself around to get the pins free of the 3 point draft arms and you might want a hammer and punch in case you have to tap them out.


Edited by Jim.ME - 18 Oct 2020 at 8:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 10:29am
If the PTO shaft is bound up tight enough to not disengage, the reason is probably because the driveline of the tractor is still engaged also... there's just enough tension between the implement's mechanicals and the wheels' drive to prevent disengatement.

If the tractor's gearshift isn't in neutral, it'd explain this.  If the transmission IS in neutral, then things are more interesting.  With the PTO lever broken off, if the transmission is stuck in gear, extracting the tractor will be tricky, as the mower will want to spin on any attempt to roll the tractor.  If it were me, I'd probably drag a floor jack out to the field, shove it under the mower deck lip atop a plank, and lift up the deck far enough to allow the blades to swing free, then try disconnecting the PTO shaft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tracy Martin TN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 10:48am
If the PTO drive line ain't bent, unhook the cutter and pull forward. Pto driveline should slip apart. HTH Tracy
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