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Rod B 
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Location: Peoria
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 Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:49am |
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But you claimed your builds were all-out. As in all out awesome with nothing held back.
Is your machine shop a non profit organization? Seams if you're as busy as you claim, budget constraints should not be an issue. With union pay scale even less of an issue. Just makeing $1 per hour instead of trying to proclaim your intelligence on all internet sites would have bought good parts. Murphys was makeing rods at that time for about $1000.
Panknomics. A buck saved on important engine parts is another buck to spend on booze.
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Rod B
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:08am |
 mlpankey wrote:
With a set of forged billet rods that engine woud still be running. |
No it wouldn't. It would have still shook itself apart
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mufflerboltz
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:10am |
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well I'll do one thing that you will never do Pank, that is I'll admit I was wrong a bout bearings! But i hope that doesnt give you a bigger head (which it probably will) cuz i dont really care and can man up where i am wrong unlike you! but anyways say what you will cuz you will anyhow just to hear yourself talk! Good day
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Rod B
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:15am |
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With pank's measureing skills we've seen in being off .020" on head gaskets and his cam degreeing problems he can't measure a bearing bore accuratly enough to know if it's round like his belly or square like his head.
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mufflerboltz
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:29am |
Rod Im just saying that i can handle being wrong, i don't have to change the subject or go pointing fingers at someone else to make myself look better. I know i haven't been on this forum that long and still have alot to learn about pulling but i cant stand one of those people that is "that guy" who just doesn't shut up and realize that nobody's listening and does not care about his soap box preaching!
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Butch(OH)
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:41am |
The answer as to why the tabs break of when the insert spins is as plain and simple as the nose on your face, they stick out. Why kind of super ingeniousness rocket scientist does it take to understand that??? Good grief 
Why dont you answer some questions about bushing type insert bearings for us since you know more about them than the Mfg of the bearing, their reps or anyone else. Since tabs are what keeps the rod and main inserts from spinning A- What keeps the cam bearings from spinning? B- What keeps the bushing from spinning in an idler gear, generator, distributor shaft etc?
The answer is crush, same as the rods and mains. As the rep tried to tell you, if he knew his stuff, the tabs on an split type insert bushing bearing are there for two reasons 1. They locate the inserts SIDEWAYS for assembly. 2. They locate the parting line in relationship to the parting line of the rod for assembly.
That they provide some VERY limited extra non-rotational force is nothing but a side affect. If they are there for what you claim they certainly do a pi$$ poor job of it as even you have read and looked at pictures and have seen that when the insert rotates they simply tear off. When they started using Aluminum rods in hi performance engines it wasn't long before they had to pin the inserts in place to keep them from rotating. Clevite soon had the inserts out and the hole size and location was more or less standardized. If your theory is correct explain why given same engine with only change being the rod material why was this only true for aluminum rods? The answer is your theory is wrong. The pins were needed because Aluminum expands at a much greater rate than any steel or iron. They expand so much that you loose crush and then the insert spins and those little locking tabs for ASSEMBLY sure aren't going to stop it, and didn't and still dont. The situation was compounded even further as certain "hi performance" inserts are ( or were) steel backed. Now you had a rod bore growing more than the OEM part and and insert growing less than the OEM part.
The Bamfords diesel in my shop right now has no tabs on the inserts, none zero, notta and never did. The insert is retained by crush which is specified in the manual. Come up to the shop and we will start it up and put out a lawn chair for you so you can laugh and giggle when it slings the rod out the side, Better bring a bed role and a few years worth a food along, its been running since 1941.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 9:46am |
Yabut, yabut, yabut, MP would waste your time, my time and anybody else's time arguing because he's union and gets paid by the hour. we've seen him argue with himself on this site. The more he argues, the less work he has to do (if he ever does any work). He'd probably argue with a nuclear engineer about how the reactor failed. Just because he couldn't keep the water pump running had absolutely nothing to do with the failure 
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 26 Jan 2013 at 9:47am
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mlpankey
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 12:43pm |
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Yeah butch they help hold the bearing so in order for the bearing to move the force e is great enough to break the tabs and overcome the intefernce or crush. Not just one thing holding the bearing but two things a little insurance Mufflerbolts glad you can be taught so many on here cant like rob still arguing a rod machined from stock is stronger than even lower grade steel thats forged.
Edited by mlpankey - 26 Jan 2013 at 12:54pm
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wi50
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 1:19pm |
mlpankey wrote:
glad you can be taught so many on here cant like rob still arguing a rod machined from stock is stronger than even lower grade steel thats forged. |
I knew there was a use for thick styrofoam.... I just knew it would come in handy to make super light connecting rods.
The point of billet rods is to get a rod stronger than the low grade forged ones..... get a rod with custom dimensions and the ability to do the job. I bet all the billet alumnium rods are junk too.....I have a set of those for the super stock. Better call GMS and return them, get the $2750 back and buy some buda rods for it......
Edited by wi50 - 26 Jan 2013 at 1:21pm
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"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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Larry W.
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 1:32pm |
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Make sure you use the high R value green Styrofoam the pink stuff just won't cut it!
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mlpankey
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 1:38pm |
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Alumunium rods need changed every season. But in your case a pull every ten years they should last a lifetime .most aluminum rods are forged. If they arent send them back.forging makes softer materials stronger.
Edited by mlpankey - 26 Jan 2013 at 1:42pm
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Rod B
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 2:20pm |
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More pankey logic. Materials with 45,000-65,00 psi tensel strength like his rods are stronger than rods machined from the 4140-4340 group with tensel strength of 140,000-180,000 psi tensel strength.
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mlpankey
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 3:19pm |
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Check on forging.
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Larry W.
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 4:57pm |
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Marty made more passes last summer just on the wtpa circuit then you've probably made in the last 5 years pank.
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mlpankey
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:20pm |
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Where did he purchase that case engine from larry he so proud of it on the allis site you know.
Edited by mlpankey - 26 Jan 2013 at 6:22pm
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Larry W.
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:33pm |
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It was built by him.
Edited by Larry W. - 26 Jan 2013 at 6:35pm
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Rod B
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:40pm |
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Didn't you get exposed in the top fuel maching thread pankey as the guy who buys engines. I read the link. Buy a competitive engine and tune it into an uncompetitive state. Then sell the parts, leak the original builders secrets.
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mlpankey
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:56pm |
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I dont recon you implied that but we know youll lie. High te sile rod loads come from screaming rpms. I can prove it. A fellow can run a turbo and low rpms and make cnc machined rods live a while.but if he decides to twist the rpms up bad things will happen.
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mlpankey
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 6:57pm |
mlpankey wrote:
I dont recon you implied that but we know youll lie. High tensile rod loads come from screaming rpms. I can prove it. A fellow can run a turbo and low rpms and make cnc machined rods live a while.but if he decides to twist the rpms up bad things will happen. |
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Ihateillinoisnazis
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:11pm |
mlpankey wrote:
Where did he purchase that case engine from larry he so proud of it on the allis site you know. |
HAHAHAHA Now we have heard it all. Spankster you really are a one of a kind. I think the points standings for the year shows the level of work the WI does. Spanksalot, how did your points record look this year??? Please post a link, I'm sure many others on here would like to see it.
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Rod B
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:43pm |
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I watched illinazi tune a LSS one night by swapping injectors based on cylinder position takeing into account cam deflection.
You should see him tune an allis to perfection with the choke blade.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 7:53pm |
MP making billet rods. 
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Ihateillinoisnazis
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:05pm |
CTuckerNWIL wrote:
MP making billet rods.
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Hahah ended something like this....?
http://youtu.be/TNNvjbzrC0Q?t=18s
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Rod B
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:19pm |
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Get it right. He uses OSB chipboard. It's like forged wood.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:28pm |
mlpankey wrote:
I dont recon you implied that but we know youll lie. High te sile rod loads come from screaming rpms. I can prove it. A fellow can run a turbo and low rpms and make cnc machined rods live a while.but if he decides to twist the rpms up bad things will happen. |
Nobody said anything about "High te sile rod loads" whatever that is. Mention was made of tensile strength of different materials. If you read what was printed in front of you, you probably could make sense of some of the information that just FLIES over your head.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:32pm |
Ihateillinoisnazis wrote:
Hahah ended something like this....? |
[TUBE]http://youtu.be/TNNvjbzrC0Q?t=18s[/TUBE]
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 26 Jan 2013 at 8:32pm
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Ihateillinoisnazis
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Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 8:41pm |
Rod B wrote:
Get it right. He uses OSB chipboard. It's like forged wood. |
What's stronger... that forged chip board or red oak? Hmm
Ctucker, thanks for hyperlinking the video!
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EricSWPA
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Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 1:23am |
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Nope no one could figure out running high rpm's is hard on rods or any other part of the engine. Stuff will break but if billet rods are made out of stronger material then the buds rod I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the billet rod is stronger or am i wrong lmao. The chip board has to be stronger its forged.
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mlpankey
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Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 2:02am |
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If you make two rods from the same strength stock one cnc machined one forged which is stronger.if you make a forged rod out of a slightly weaker stock than the cnc machined which is stronger.its amazing how short the rod ratio is and how small the needle bearing rod is compared to piston size and them ole saws flat turn some rpms. A long rod man would say no way they could turn such rpms but thats not reality and thats where i live.
Edited by mlpankey - 27 Jan 2013 at 2:04am
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EricSWPA
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Posted: 27 Jan 2013 at 2:14am |
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If the rods are identical thickness length and so on then the billet would be equal in your first example and better in your second a chain saw is a hole different animal compared to a tractor engine. The bigger the stroke the less rpms a engine will withstand I'm not a chainsaw guy but what are they a inch and a half stroke
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