This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Construction and other equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Coke? Cat Bottom - Allis Top

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
orangeman View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 1680
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orangeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Coke? Cat Bottom - Allis Top
    Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 8:04am
Hey Coke:

Was thinking that sometime ago you mentioned stitching a Cat. Bottom onto and Allis Top.  

I have been pouring over specifications for Allis Chalmers Undercarriage.  I am thinking that a Cat D4 or D6 bottom with some fabrication could be adapted onto a HD6 Shovel. 

I know the sprockets would need to be machined as well as fabricating an adapter for the Cat solid idler.  

Has anyone considered this approach to the near non existance of allis bottom U/C hardware?
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Coke-in-MN View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41185
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 9:49am
What i did was change my D6-9U Cat over to D5 track and segmented sprockets (bolt on sprocket teeth) by cutting D6 spokes loose from old sprocket - then welding on the D5 ring. The pad bolt spacing was such the pads interchanged as well as the rollers and the idler fit into the width and depth.
 One should be able to find something in track that will fit the spacing and height of the AC idlers and rollers- then find a sprocket ring to match. I had one HD4 sprocket that someone had cut the ring of good sprocket teeth off and then cut another sprocket and welded the 2 together- unsure of why but lot of things seems to be done to save a few $$ out of pocket
 


Edited by Coke-in-MN - 05 Apr 2013 at 9:52am
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
Back to Top
TREVMAN View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Location: Regina,Sask,Can
Points: 1635
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TREVMAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 11:19am
There is a local shop here that buys up HD16's and I believe they mount the allis top to a cat d7 undercarriage. The story I have been told is that they weld some holes shut, re-drill and the two can be bolted together. They blast and paint the whole thing and sell them, mostly to farmers who want a reliable machine. I know a guy that works there, I'll check with him. If it can be done on a 16, there must be smaller units that it could be done on, Trev.
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 12:28pm
Trevman- are you talking about fitting the whole track frame and everything from a D7?  I've seen pictures of a 16 set up that way.  My cousins did a 16B recently with Komatsu track, from a D65 or something, I think.
Looks like TD8 IH stuff would fit on an HD6 if you could find some- I've heard it's easier to find than the Allis parts, but I'm not sure..
The undercarriage wear chart posted by bottleworks a while back on this forum would be handy to find a match.
Also heard of a guy fitting Case rollers to his HD6, maybe 850?
I have a lot of unconfirmed info from hearing about lots of different projects- any time I've worked on HD11s I've been able to find the genuine Allis stuff so far... I have a list of about 20 places that I just keep calling until I find what I need.  Stuff comes and goes, two years ago I couldn't find a roller for the 11, and now I've found about 3 sets when I don't need them, and I can buy segments for 1/4 the price I've paid in the past.  A little patience can pay off if you aren't in a bind.
Back to Top
TREVMAN View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Location: Regina,Sask,Can
Points: 1635
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TREVMAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 1:05pm
Hey Trevor, Trevor here, ya the Allis top to the entire Cat undercarriage is what they say they do. Apparently the mounting holes are half a hole out, so they weld them closed and re-drill. I'll check with Danny, he has done a bunch I think, even one in the field! Trev.
Back to Top
Mactractor View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand
Points: 652
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mactractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:15pm
Ive posted here a number of times on HD6 to D4 track and Dry steer HD11/HD9 to D5 track changes track shops have done down here using the AC truck frames.
HD6 sprocket rings are cut off and D47U rings welded on. Rollers are spaced away from frame slightly. The idlers I`m guessing they just build up then machine to suit the D4 chain.
HD9/11s they cut sprocket spokes off and weld on solid discs made for D5 segments. I guess the rollers and idlers are altered slightly like on the HD6s.
A member from Queensland, Australia posted a while back on his HD16DP rebuild including Cat D7 track conversion. I think he used the AC frames.
As for HD21, our local Caterpillar expert says D8 chains just go straight on them
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 5:44pm
Yes, I've heard that about the HD21 track- in fact, I've read that in the old days some guys ran 21 track on their D8s because it lasted longer.  I guess we've gone full circle.

I've looked at D5 track for HD11, but I've always been priced out by the fact that you have to go all the way, new chain, shoes, everything- I've never been able to justify the cost, especially when the Allis components are still relatively easy to come by here.  The biggest problem for me has been shipping- I've gotten track parts from Montana, California, South Carolina, Minnesota, Alberta, Ontario, Wisconsin, etc, etc- all cheap before it was shipped.  Never ship collect, I found that out....

These are some of the outfits I've dealt with:

Arnolds- Colusa CA
Tri City Tractor- Colton CA
Thill Track and Tractor- Eau Claire WI
Crane and Tractor- Columbus OH
Utah Track and Welding- Salt Lake City UT
Union Tractor- Edmonton AB
Blount Parts- Hoboken GA
Stephens Equipment- Sarver PA

Then there are old construction men, farmers, ranchers, the guy that used to own a dozer because he dug a pond.  I just peruse Craigslist, Machinery trader dismantled listings, farm papers, etc, more and more stuff keeps showing up.  I don't know what I would do without the internet- I probably would have quit working on Allis Chalmers by now.
Back to Top
Mactractor View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand
Points: 652
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mactractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 11:32pm
You are stlii a lot closer to good sources for parts than we are way down here Trev.
The D5 track was ok on dry steer Hd11 which are a good 3-4000 pound lighter than wet steer 11s when both are rigged for work. I think D5 track would be too light for the wet steer tractors
Back to Top
Ian Beale View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Location: New South Wales
Points: 932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Beale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 5:00am
Have a look at FA 10 chains for HD 11's - seem close and they have sprocket halves
Back to Top
Ian Beale View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Location: New South Wales
Points: 932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Beale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 5:02am
Forgot to mention that on a metric machine the track bolts are 5/8 AF, so I'm guessing that Fiat got them from something in production
Back to Top
Coke-in-MN View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41185
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 12:18pm
I did search for a long time and came up with a set of rails and sprockets for my FD5 and in the deal got 7 lower rollers also thrown in . 
 Thill Track and Tractor in Eau Care WI came up with a set they had sent to Canada a few years back and were not used so they got them returned to the US . Picked them up from their shop - still on pallet. 
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
Back to Top
HD6 Merv View Drop Down
Silver Level Access
Silver Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Points: 476
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 3:33pm
Is a thread on heavy equipment forums; about 2nd page in under HD16B; about a guy who changed his 16B to D7G track gear. And yes he was able to use 2 of the original bolt holes and just drill 2 more per roller.
Could never work out why cat went to an oddball track pitch of 6.91 inchs when they changed the D6B/D5 from 6.75 pitch instead of going straight to 7 inch. Think they were worried people might use it to retrofit HD11s [which they probably knew was a very good tractor; and competition to them] so they just went to something very different just to frustrate people who never bought their colour of steel !
Have seen some dry end HD11s here that people here had changed to D5 undercarriage.
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 8:23pm
Yes, there are certain advantages to living on a really BIG island, Mac.
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2013 at 8:26pm
I'm not complaining- I realize that if I lived like most of the world I wouldn't have an Allis hobby at all, or maybe no hobbies- I'd just have my nose to the grinder to survive.
Back to Top
gemdozer View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Points: 941
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemdozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 6:34am
I have a HD11 E chaine set with pads on in very good condition and some rollers,idlers and more but am't shipping heavy and am located near MONTREAL
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 9:30am
I forgot to mention General Gear, Boise, ID- tractorparts.com- he's got some HD6 stuff.
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 9:50am
Gemdozer- sounds like you have a regular wrecking yard there.  How many Allis machines have you parted out?  Gentleman at Tri City tractor claims to have parted out over 30 HD11 tractors, and Crane and Tractor have done lots of them.
Trevman- I ran into a guy some time back who said he had bought and sold 35 HD16 dozers- he bought them south of the border, equipped them for bush work and sold them in central SK.  I can't remember his name though, I think he was from the Yorkton area.  There is also a guy up at Crooked River that does alot of work on 16s and 16Bs- he calls himself Catech Equipment.  I've had lots of ads in the Producer over the years, and lots of interest in parts and machines out of Saskatchewan.  It's like pulling hens teeth to get guys to haul stuff to Saskatchewan, everybody is hauling equipment out to Alberta and coming back empty- I've never sold a tractor in your province.  (I'm assuming you are familiar with the Western Producer- here we call it the "Saskatchewan Paper")
I'm just rambling.... my wife calls it an obsession, she says that I talk more with old guys about their Allis Chalmers than I do with her.  (not quite true)  Some guy will call looking for an engine fan or something and it will turn into an hour long conversation.  I'll know where they bought the machine, what they paid, what they did with it and what they did to it.  That's what I like about this Allis stuff- it's more laid back, people aren't in such a hurry for the most part.  Try calling up your local Case, Cat or Deere dealer and asking about something that's more than 10 years old- they hardly give you the time of day.  I was working on a Case backhoe the other day at work, and when I called the dealer they told us it should be scrapped (literally)- I was thinking; "1990- that's pretty near new in my world!"
What does this have to do with HD6 undercarriage- nothing.  Maybe I am soft in the head.
Back to Top
gemdozer View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Points: 941
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemdozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 3:43pm
I dismantled 1 HD16,1- 12GB,8-HD11,2-HD9,2-HD7GB,2-HD7G,8-HD6,6-HD5 and have no more yard and am on my pension and have just a small inventary .
Back to Top
TREVMAN View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Location: Regina,Sask,Can
Points: 1635
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TREVMAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 7:29pm
Well Trevor, a guy could be interested in lots worse things. Here, we call it the "Western Seducer". For our friends elsewhere, it is a farm paper with tons of print ads, a lot of older gentlemen still place good old fashioned paper print ads rather than using the internet. Great bathroom reading...I wear an Allis-Chalmers cap a lot, get into conversations all over the place, my wife is a great gal, just rolls her eyes and walks away...Anyhow, never heard of the guy at Yorkton, or Crooked Lake, but I can tell you the HD16 seems to be a very popular on farm cat here. And I know where my Dads HD5 shovel is that got sold in 72, I know where a brand new set of tracks for an HD5 that are still in the shipping crate are, and I know where an HD11 dozer with the oval decal is that I can buy for probably $500, it is a guy I grew up with and it has a "noise" in the rear end...Its a disease man , we need a support group...OOPs, we have one here. I'll check with my bud Danny about the Allis to Cat marriage, he will give me all the details, Trev.

Edited by TREVMAN - 07 Apr 2013 at 7:31pm
Back to Top
orangeman View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 1680
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orangeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 7:42pm
Guys:  I know this post started out about a marriage between an Allis Top and Cat bottom for an HD6 but all of this is good reading material no matter what Allis Crawler it is .  

Certainly do enjoy all the comments and post.  Trevman looking forward to seeing what your buddy's thoughts are on the swap. 

Gemdozer - good to hear from you is the snow gone in Montreal?  

Was a warm and breezy day here in Upstate New York.  Still frost in the ground though in the woods. 

Went to dinner with my wife and to get groceries, went by a construction site next to a brand new motel and guess what was parked in the construction area.   An early AC HD6 with straight blade and brush canopy brand new track and a Cat 215 excavator.  

Good to see the old with the new.  The HD6 was in extra nice shape.  

Orangeman
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 10:53am
IH TD8 rails can be had for $1200 per side, and the seller says he can have track shoes made for any rail, any size.  Might be an option for HD6- not sure how many links they have though.
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 11:09am
My wife has been super, actually- has even turned a wrench now and then...
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 11:10am
As long as she gets to run it after-
Back to Top
orangeman View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 1680
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orangeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 3:01pm
You are one lucky guy Lazyts.  
Back to Top
HD6 Merv View Drop Down
Silver Level Access
Silver Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Points: 476
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 2:56am
You are one exceedingly lucky man lazyts. Cherish that lady; us other mere mortals can only dream and wish for women like that.
Ummm you don,t have any daughters that take after mum do you
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
Back to Top
Mactractor View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand
Points: 652
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mactractor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 3:20am
Where do ya get em Trev?
Back to Top
Lazyts View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Location: Manitoba
Points: 627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lazyts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2013 at 10:24am
Her dad is a mechanic, and had four daughters before he had a son.  They are the kind that rebuild transmissions for high school projects.  One of her sisters helped start a welding business before she was eighteen.  My wife can sew, knit, cook, raise kids, drive a tractor, fix about anything, do a c-section and pull calves... and will probably never be wealthy.  (Money wise anyway)
Merv- my daughter is a little too young...
Back to Top
HD6 Merv View Drop Down
Silver Level Access
Silver Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Location: New Zealand
Points: 476
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2013 at 1:30am
Cheers Trev. Guard your daughter; ensure any future boyfriends have diesel in there blood !
That's a great pic mate !
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
Back to Top
Coke-in-MN View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Afton MN
Points: 41185
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2015 at 10:15am
After reading this thread I had to bring it back to the top - great subjects here and memories  
Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."
Back to Top
orangeman View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 1680
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orangeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2015 at 11:09am
Hi Guys:  The discussion on Allis Crawlers around the camp fire would be a good one.  

Wouldn't it be great to get a peek inside the Springfield Crawler Plant at the height of its glory.  

Wonder the assembly line looked like when the HD5 and HD6 were being assembled. 

Note to Coke:  I finally got the Truman book for my birthday that had the HD5 loading a single axle dump.  Unfortunately, the book only had one photo of the Allis Track loaders. I remember when  you posted you had several photos showing the earthwork going on.  Where did the other photo's come from?  

Have a Great Day- Orangeman!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.113 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum