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Coil

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brews4me View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 8:20pm
Hi again folks, several questions.

I'm in need of a tune up, the 1958 D14 currently has a coil that's marked 12 volt, the D14 is a 6 volt, is that the right coil or should I seek out a new 6 volt??? I also see coils for sale marked "hot", if the 12 volt is ok should I get a hot coil????

The D14 doesn't come with a fuel pump, what's the recommended process to not have issues going up a hill at low speeds??? I don't remember my grandfather having issues but this weekend I had a start issue when parked going up a hill???

Also, my dash has the power boost gauge but it's not hooked to anything, any ideas where to hookup the gauge to???

Got this thing running after a 10 year rest in the barn, cranked up the first turn of the key after some prep. Runs great, just a few hiccups!




 


Edited by brews4me - 14 Nov 2016 at 8:31pm
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 9:20pm
You will have better ignition with a 6 volt coil on a 6 volt tractor.

Gas should gravity flow if the tank is near full when you have to park it on a hill. Might be worth turning the tractor direction to be sure gravity will flow the fuel. If you have added an inline fuel filter it may be restricting the flow because most of those filters are designed for use with a fuel pump, not the very low pressure of gravity.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brews4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 9:25pm
Man, you're right on target, an inline fuel filter after the sediment bowl has been added somewhere along the way.
I will have to get that thing off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSeries4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 9:44pm
Early D14s were originally 6 volt (until 1959).  Sounds like yours was probably converted to 12 volt at some point before you got it. 
That power booster gauge (Called traction booster) hooks up to a small steel line which leads to a small box about a foot away that is mounted on top of the torque tube.  Most of those gauges no longer work now and they don't really tell you anything when they do work.
Hard starting when facing uphill can also be caused by the tank being low on gas. Chances are it's that inline filter which is causing the problem.  Put a fuel bowl strainer on at the bottom of the gas tank instead.
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 5:42am
most all modern coils are basically a 12 volt system, even if they are identified as 6 volt. Just make sure its wired correctly for the polarity of the system you are using...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 6:06am
See what kinda' Battery is in that Tractor. 3 cells, its a 6V Battery. 6 cells its a 12V Battery. If its still 6V, get yourself a new 6V coil and install it. If its flipped to 12V, make sure you get the correct 3.0 Ohm coil for the 4 cylinder on 12Vs. You need 2.7-3.3 Ohms of resistance in the ignition circuit for a 4 cylinder on 12V's, so a 3.0 Ohm coil sticks you smack dab in the center. We have either coil in stock on our website if interested. You usually won't find a "hot" coil for 6V's, but there are hot coils out there in the aftermarket for 12V coils. Not really necessary for a Tractor unless your using it in pulling competition or running a higher compression engine due to some engine work. If you move to an electronic ignition, you can run the optional hotter coil if you wish, even though the E.I. is designed for the OEM coil and system. That is totally up to the individual.. HTH
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 6:11am
hmm, no one's asked, so I will...

WHAT battery is in it !! That is very important to know.3 of my D-14s were 6 volt originally, though they've all been 'updated' to 12 volt.
Possiblities....
1) 6 volt battery, 6 volt coil, ballast resistor on plate with fuse holder
2) 6 volt D-14 with 12 volt battery, 6 volt coil AND additional ballast resistor 'somewhere'.
3) 6 volt D-14 with 12 volt battery AND 12 volt coil, NO ballast resistor
4) 12 volt D-14, 12 volt battery, ballast resistor on plate
5) 12 volt D-14 ,12 volt battery and real 12 volt coil

any one else got a headache yet ???
I'm sure there's another combination....

Have to ask do you want to restore the D-14 and does the generator work well ?
All mine are now 12 volt with CS-130 alternators ans side post batteries.

Jay

3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 6:12am
I'd measure across the coil studs. If you measure about 3 ohms, it's a true 12 volt coil. If you measure about half of that it's a 6 volt coil. In the transition between 6 and 12 volts many coils were labeled as 12 volts, but they were meant to be used with a ballast resistor. Those coils werte really designed as 6 volt coils.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bryan/silex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 7:33am
Question??   why would you have a 6volt battery 6 volt coil and a resistor??   resistor is not needed then....you would be cutting the power down too much
WD's and 45's B's and c's and a few red ones , ALLIS EXPRESS also
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 10:16am
For very high speed engines (like Nascar race cars running V-8s at 10,000 RPM) a low voltage coil with a ballast resistor works better. The lower inductance of the low voltage coil builds current faster and when supplied through a resistor builds current even faster than the coil alone. Running one coil on a V-8 engine at 10,000 RPM plus needs that. And some Chrysler street cars ran 3 volt coils with resistors in the 6 volt days. Tractor engines don't run nearly that fast, more often in the 6 volt, a 4 cylinder engine topping out at 2000 or 2250 RPM and so a plain 6 volt coil with a 6 volt battery or a 12 volt coil with a 12 volt battery.

My 12 volt JD 4020 uses a 6 volt coil with a resistor. Over the time period that model was built, the resistor changed at least a couple times and mine is wired differently. The starter solenoid has an auxiliary contact that is wired direct to the coil and puts full battery voltage on the coil while cranking for better starting. The long skinny battery JD used has more voltage drop than other battery designs while cranking. In one version there was a resistor inside the ignition/start switch. In mine the ignition switch didn't start, a separate push button powers the starter solenoid and the resistor was a length of insulated iron or resistance wire hidden in the harness. Mine was modified to use a ceramic resistor made for the purpose mounted near the coil. I know Steve doesn't like those resistors but I haven't had any trouble with that resistor, my trouble was with the Scotch Tap used to connect the wire to the ignition switch end of the old resistance wire that went open while I was putting up hay. I hot wired the coil with a spare wire not switched and finished the job. Then I made a Y for spade lugs and took the blasted Scotch Tap out (and put it in the garbage) and haven't had an ignition problem since.

The coil polarity needs to match the battery polarity along with the battery voltage.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bryan/silex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 10:54am
but your putting 12 volts to coil,,,,not 6 if you are putting 6 volts to a tractor engine why do you need the resistor? not a 10,000 rpm car motor,,,,all the 6 volt tractors I have seen have not had resistor
WD's and 45's B's and c's and a few red ones , ALLIS EXPRESS also
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brews4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 11:13am
Folks-

Everything is pretty much original, new 6 volt battery with 3 cells.
6 volt system with generator.
BUT, someone along the way (recently) installed some 12 volt coil (probably the the incorrect one and off some old junk car maybe??? but it does run) and a inline fuel filter.

The coil is marked 12V







Edited by brews4me - 15 Nov 2016 at 11:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brews4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 2:52pm
Sorry, don't know why the picture showed up as giant size???

Can anyone tell me if that's a Delco Distributer????? I am not close to that tractor since I closed up the barn for winter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 3:13pm
Yes that is a delco spring clip distributor.   Someone painted over the delco name plate on the right hand side in your picture.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brews4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 3:17pm
Also, what was the purpose of the cigarette lighter in dash??? Really Cigs?????

Guess now it's great for my smart phone!


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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 3:24pm
It is easy to size the picture. When using the fancier reply that includes the picture option, just enter width 640 and height 480 at the lower left options fields.

Gerald J.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 3:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brews4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 3:40pm
Ok, i'll give it a try, thanks so much!!!!

Can someone tell me how to test this generator and what type of measurement should be coming out???

You gotta love the person who was trying to help an old tractor out and painted every damn wire and part!!!!!! arughhhhhhhh but it runs better with an orange belt!!!! hahahahha




Edited by brews4me - 15 Nov 2016 at 4:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 5:09pm
It should show charge on the ammeter if its charging after starting if the engine is running at a fast idle or faster. If it has a voltage regulator that charging current should taper with time down to zero current. The A terminal should have 7.2 volts if regulated properly when its charging. It should be flashed if the battery has been changed, and that flashing should be before its run. To flash it should be in the manual, basically temporarily connect the B and A terminals on the cutout or regulator.

One test that also accomplishes flashing is to take the belt off and connect those A and B terminals. The generator should run like a motor. If you then ground the F terminal it should slow down.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 5:20pm
re: the coil....
while it says 12v it might acually be a '3 ohm' coil,so really a 6 volt coil...
when installed in a 12v system, it'd need a 3 ohm 'ballast resistor' , that would allow 4 amps of current..

be nice is 'Steve' could look up what the heck a '112' coil is ! Google didn't help me,sigh..

Jay

3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brews4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 5:29pm
Not to be a total bonehead but are they marked A and B??

I can't say I've ever test a generator and I'm the kind of guy that has to stick a 9 volt battery on my tongue to see if it works!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brews4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 5:38pm
my head hurts i'm learning so much here !

thanks all!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 5:44pm
Someone did ask to check what Battery was in it. Me. So now we know its a 6V Battery. What's the Generator number on the tag. I can't make it out. The Delco 12V coil (112) is the 1.8 Ohm Universal version. Wrong for the application. Find out what the number of the Gennie is. It could be either a 6V or 12V with the short "step down" chassis. Also, to find out if it works, take it off and bring it to a rebuilder and let him load test it. He'll be able to tell you what it is and isn't doing. Check the voltage regulator. If its the OEM regulator (Delco) it will have its part number stamped on the mounting flange. If its been replaced, (which it probably has in its lifetime on the machine) unbolt it and look on the bottom of the unit. It will either be stamped, decaled, or inked what it is. ( ie- 6VPG, 12VPG/NG etc.) or have "VR-XXX number. I can ID that with my books.  You may have peaches and apples there. You want either all peaches, or all apples.
Steve@B&B
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brews4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 6:24pm
Gen, i took this pict last week also


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 8:27pm
After its been tested be absolutely certain to flash it when reinstalling it. The odds are it will be the wrong polarity and that's disastrous to the cutout section of the voltage regulator.

There should be at least three terminals on the voltage regulator marked F, A, and B. F for the generator field, A for the generator armature, and B for the wire to the battery through the ammeter. There can be an L terminal used to allow operating lights only when the engine is running.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 9:21pm
Okay, the 1100025 is the higher amp 6V unit.  Max amps is 30-35 @ full field. Like I mentioned, I'd pull it off and take down to your local rebuilder if you have one and have him check it out. It also would be good to bring the VR with you also. So far you're six volts except for the coil. Pick yourself up a 6V coil. You still need to ID the VR yet.
Steve@B&B 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chalmersbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 9:26pm
To check if the genny is working, after flashing it, ground the F wire. Your amp meter should show 10 amps or more. Bob
4 B's, 1 C's,3 CA's, 2 G's WD, D14, D15, B-1, B10, B12, 712S,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brews4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 9:26pm
The VR will probably be spring due to usually lots of snow and weather, but will try to run down if possible to identify.

Here's me on that Allis in maybe 67







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brews4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by Steve in NJ Steve in NJ wrote:

Okay, the 1100025 is the higher amp 6V unit.  Max amps is 30-35 @ full field. Like I mentioned, I'd pull it off and take down to your local rebuilder if you have one and have him check it out. It also would be good to bring the VR with you also. So far you're six volts except for the coil. Pick yourself up a 6V coil. You still need to ID the VR yet.
Steve@B&B 

What kind of shop checks out generators???
And would know the right specs??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brews4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 3:20pm
ok, found a guy in Denver that will checkout VR and generator, 68$ plus parts.


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