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mlpankey 
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 Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 4:24pm |
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hand clutches are alot alike foot clutches they start slipping way before you know it and get worse till you know it . Most though when that happens wants to change the foot clutch instead of locking out the hand clutch. The only difference in the foot clutch that you might get the warning its slipping before you realize it is the smoke but the hand clutch is a wet clutch so getting smoke and or linning dust isnt going to happen. some people really should build pullers cause untill they experience it they just cant be forwarned. mrgoodwrench three people myself Drallis and wi have said flywheel weight helps still confused or does it just take wi to make it gospel?
Edited by mlpankey - 15 Dec 2012 at 4:40pm
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Kip-Utah
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Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 4:57pm |
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I don't know what a gleaner flywheel weighs, but stock WC,WD, WD45 flywheels are nowhere close to 100 pounds. I use several of these flywheels for weights on a couple of my pullers and they all weigh right at 65 pounds. The total assembly of flywheel, pressure plate, and disc probably only 85 pounds or so. Kip
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HANSEN'S OLD ORANGE IRON. Showing, Pulling, & Going!!
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mlpankey
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Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 5:05pm |
 Kip-Utah wrote:
I don't know what a gleaner flywheel weighs, but stock WC,WD, WD45 flywheels are nowhere close to 100 pounds. I use several of these flywheels for weights on a couple of my pullers and they all weigh right at 65 pounds. The total assembly of flywheel, pressure plate, and disc probably only 85 pounds or so. Kip |
i need to weigh one again memory isnt what it use to be . anyways you can tell in the picture the gleanor doesnt have the mass the tractor flywheel does that was more my point than scale weight. If you do what dr. allis described then its at it on the scale.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 5:38pm |
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mlpankey
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Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 6:55pm |
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Dr. Allis would you care to post again at what horsepower the hand clutches cannot hold in a wd and wd 45 puller for the guys who can not use the search engine on the farm site where we have talked several times on this before the pulling forum ever came. wives tail just like adding weight to the flywheel. pulling site must not just be for pullers. again people should build a puller cause you cant forwarn them before they experience it.
Edited by mlpankey - 15 Dec 2012 at 6:57pm
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GBACBFan
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Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 7:37pm |
Spankey wrote:
people should build a puller cause you cant forwarn them before they experience it. |
You are absolutely correct with that statement. Please post some pics of the pullers you've built. I suspect non-believers will take a step back when they can learn from pictures of your success.
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RWR
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Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 7:59pm |
i pull dead weight on a hard surface and we like to use the hand clutch the most they pull the the way we pull put you have to use the 3 plate clutch and it will hold at 70 hp.
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LouSWPA
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Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 8:21pm |
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well, I wasn't asking for a fight. I'm asking why, if the wheels are spinning, does that equate to lost distance.....or did I misunderstand the original statement? and, again, I'm not arguing, I'm asking, what's the max HP for a WD/45 hand clutch and maintain some reliability? I was always told they were a pretty stout unit. please, no third grade playground "my dad can beat up your dad" BS, lets just have a simple discussion
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I am still confident of this;
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mlpankey
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Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 8:22pm |
GBACBFan wrote:
Spankey wrote:
people should build a puller cause you cant forwarn them before they experience it. |
You are absolutely correct with that statement. Please post some pics of the pullers you've built. I suspect non-believers will take a step back when they can learn from pictures of your success. |
pictures are all over the web from this site to yt pulling forum to crossroads of diixie. lou anything over 85 . the original poster wanted 100 hp setup
Edited by mlpankey - 15 Dec 2012 at 8:24pm
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DrAllis
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Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 8:31pm |
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If you have a three disc hand clutch, it will transmit 50% more HP or torque than a two disc hand clutch, if both are in the same mechanical condition and spring pressure. Under an extreme load they could/can slip momentarily and you may not be able to detect the slippage of the wet clutch. I don't use one in my WD or any I've ever built because of the weight issue ( 3500 lbs class) and I don't want ANY chance of slippage to occur.
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Fields
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Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 8:47pm |
When I had Phil Brown aka D17brown . build my wd45 puller. He mad a hand clutch elimination for it. I might have a pic. Great guy to deal with. and within 80 miles from you. can't find the pic of the hand clutch elimination. But it is strong and light weight. 
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mlpankey
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Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 8:52pm |
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all it takes to eliminate it is another hub like the clutch bolts to slid on the rearends shaft facing the hub on the transmission and i think three grade 8 bolts washers and nuts maybe four and a 1 inch freeze plug to plug hole where shaft came through. removes 50 lbs easily cause you dont need as much fluid in tube with clutch removed.
Edited by mlpankey - 15 Dec 2012 at 8:54pm
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Carl(NWWI)
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Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 1:11am |
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Easiest fix for the hand clutch is 3 grade 8 5/16 or 3/8 bolts, drill through the hand clutch and bolt it together. Been working fine for me, course im no commando, I actually have done it and use the tractor so its prolly a bad idea...
Edited by Carl(NWWI) - 16 Dec 2012 at 1:11am
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mlpankey
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Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 8:05am |
Carl(NWWI) wrote:
Easiest fix for the hand clutch is 3 grade 8 5/16 or 3/8 bolts, drill through the hand clutch and bolt it together. Been working fine for me, course im no commando, I actually have done it and use the tractor so its prolly a bad idea... |
that doent remove 50 lbs of unwanted unused weight. But its a way to keep clutch from slipping.
Edited by mlpankey - 16 Dec 2012 at 8:06am
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Carl(NWWI)
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Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 10:09am |
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Why remove it if I pull 4500 and 5500? 50 in the middle is great, I gotta throw 6 100lbs weights on anyway...
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mlpankey
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Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 12:20pm |
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Sometimes 50 extra on front or rear is more value than 50 in the middle. You should think about it a little bit thats just to easy a answere for a fellow of my pulling experience
Edited by mlpankey - 16 Dec 2012 at 12:21pm
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Carl(NWWI)
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Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 2:50pm |
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I've got my tractor balanced just fine, so I don't see 50 making that big of a difference. If its in the middle its helping both front and back. If you're that worried about 50lbs you should be more worried about getting a tractor on the track.....
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mlpankey
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Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 3:40pm |
Carl(NWWI) wrote:
I've got my tractor balanced just fine, so I don't see 50 making that big of a difference. If its in the middle its helping both front and back. If you're that worried about 50lbs you should be more worried about getting a tractor on the track..... |
Ok carl your not worried about the weight so your way is ok like i posted but you can loose 50 lbs doing it my way . Now heres the bottom line you were concerned about it slipping or you wouldnt have bolted through it and thats what started this whole post . for me being able to move weight was extra bonus to do it the way i did . six 100lbs weights isnt a task for me to move I usually move 25 of them by the time i quit pullling.
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Carl(NWWI)
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Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 5:00pm |
Mine sits with 20 weights on it all the time, pull about 15 off, pull it, put about 12 or 13 back on, then put 6 of em on the 190 for the 9500, then throw 20 more on it for the 11,000, then throw 20 of em on for another guy, then finally put em back on mine, yeah, I can handle wieghts too. Ok, what i did to mine is out there, for the most simplest and cheapest to do it is bolt it together, learned it on this forum about 5 years ago, hasnt broke yet, and Ive brought home plenty of bragging rights and trophies. Carl.
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mlpankey
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Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 7:10pm |
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Since we have been talking about this does anyone like dr. allis or fred have one of the spline tubes allis manufactured to eliminate the hand clutch back in the day for show and tell.
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Mrgoodwrench
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Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 8:48pm |
mlpankey wrote:
hand clutches are alot alike foot clutches they start slipping way before you know it and get worse till you know it . Most though when that happens wants to change the foot clutch instead of locking out the hand clutch. The only difference in the foot clutch that you might get the warning its slipping before you realize it is the smoke but the hand clutch is a wet clutch so getting smoke and or linning dust isnt going to happen. some people really should build pullers cause untill they experience it they just cant be forwarned. mrgoodwrench three people myself Drallis and wi have said flywheel weight helps still confused or does it just take wi to make it gospel? |
pankey, i said i wouldn't argue the weight issue in a pulling application, i do disagree on a drag strip but lets let it drop as this is a pulling forum... i asked if anyone here has weighted a flywheel because i had never heard of it and no local guys are admitting to doing it...if guys are throwing an extra 100lbs of rotating wieght then it must help...wouldnt matter who said they did, if only 1 then i might be skeptical but several i believe...i have said that i have little pulling experience but i'm the type of guy that likes to learn as much on paper as he can before just biulding something, i usually find that even if you build something in a lower class the higher class tricks(if allowed under the rules) can be very helpful and i don't like to build things twice unless they break. so now if i ever get to building a puller i will consider weighting the flywheel when it is off to avoid spliting it again if i can't move the sled...as to my comments on the hand clutch, i have never seen any clutch wet or dry, hand or foot, in any application slip under load and still let the tires spin. that would have to be very small ammounts of slippage to still get enough torque to the wheel to spin it.
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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mlpankey
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Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 6:32am |
Mrgoodwrench wrote:
mlpankey wrote:
hand clutches are alot alike foot clutches they start slipping way before you know it and get worse till you know it . Most though when that happens wants to change the foot clutch instead of locking out the hand clutch. The only difference in the foot clutch that you might get the warning its slipping before you realize it is the smoke but the hand clutch is a wet clutch so getting smoke and or linning dust isnt going to happen. some people really should build pullers cause untill they experience it they just cant be forwarned. mrgoodwrench three people myself Drallis and wi have said flywheel weight helps still confused or does it just take wi to make it gospel? |
pankey, i said i wouldn't argue the weight issue in a pulling application, i do disagree on a drag strip but lets let it drop as this is a pulling forum... i asked if anyone here has weighted a flywheel because i had never heard of it and no local guys are admitting to doing it...if guys are throwing an extra 100lbs of rotating wieght then it must help...wouldnt matter who said they did, if only 1 then i might be skeptical but several i believe...i have said that i have little pulling experience but i'm the type of guy that likes to learn as much on paper as he can before just biulding something, i usually find that even if you build something in a lower class the higher class tricks(if allowed under the rules) can be very helpful and i don't like to build things twice unless they break. so now if i ever get to building a puller i will consider weighting the flywheel when it is off to avoid spliting it again if i can't move the sled...as to my comments on the hand clutch, i have never seen any clutch wet or dry, hand or foot, in any application slip under load and still let the tires spin. that would have to be very small ammounts of slippage to still get enough torque to the wheel to spin it. |
So you believe we are foolish for removing it or bolting it together and even allis manufacturing a tube to eliminate hand clutch is . the only time a light weight flywheel has worked for us in a racing application is in dirt track racing where throttle responce off the corner without blowing the tires off is a advantage. If your considering adding mas to the flywheel then you are starting to understand inertia Experience is the best teacher.
Edited by mlpankey - 17 Dec 2012 at 7:24am
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mgburchard
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Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 7:46am |
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your the MAN PANKEY tell them how its done
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Ken(MI)
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Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 2:28pm |
Not positive that this is the correct coupling or not, but I made some like this to eliminate the hand clutch, easy, simple and effective, no bolts, no cobble job, and no slip.
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Mrgoodwrench
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Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 6:10pm |
mlpankey wrote:
Mrgoodwrench wrote:
mlpankey wrote:
hand clutches are alot alike foot clutches they start slipping way before you know it and get worse till you know it . Most though when that happens wants to change the foot clutch instead of locking out the hand clutch. The only difference in the foot clutch that you might get the warning its slipping before you realize it is the smoke but the hand clutch is a wet clutch so getting smoke and or linning dust isnt going to happen. some people really should build pullers cause untill they experience it they just cant be forwarned. mrgoodwrench three people myself Drallis and wi have said flywheel weight helps still confused or does it just take wi to make it gospel? |
pankey, i said i wouldn't argue the weight issue in a pulling application, i do disagree on a drag strip but lets let it drop as this is a pulling forum... i asked if anyone here has weighted a flywheel because i had never heard of it and no local guys are admitting to doing it...if guys are throwing an extra 100lbs of rotating wieght then it must help...wouldnt matter who said they did, if only 1 then i might be skeptical but several i believe...i have said that i have little pulling experience but i'm the type of guy that likes to learn as much on paper as he can before just biulding something, i usually find that even if you build something in a lower class the higher class tricks(if allowed under the rules) can be very helpful and i don't like to build things twice unless they break. so now if i ever get to building a puller i will consider weighting the flywheel when it is off to avoid spliting it again if i can't move the sled...as to my comments on the hand clutch, i have never seen any clutch wet or dry, hand or foot, in any application slip under load and still let the tires spin. that would have to be very small ammounts of slippage to still get enough torque to the wheel to spin it. |
So you believe we are foolish for removing it or bolting it together and even allis manufacturing a tube to eliminate hand clutch is . the only time a light weight flywheel has worked for us in a racing application is in dirt track racing where throttle responce off the corner without blowing the tires off is a advantage. If your considering adding mas to the flywheel then you are starting to understand inertia Experience is the best teacher. |
i never called anyone foolish, you'rethe one always one the attack. i have stated several times in several posts that i ask questions to LEARN from people who know more than me(you might try it some time). as for you hand clutch if you think it might slip take it out. i merely asked how it could be slipping and still spinning the tires, fact is if you cant feel it slip you don't know it is while you are running it. onto flywheels...let it go man, clearly pullers benifit from adding weight, do they all add weight, no, so there will always be difference of opinion. and since neither of us drag race anymore i doubt we'll be testing it on the strip either. my car planted my ass in the seat hard off the line with a factory flywheel so i don't think i needed it maybe some guys do in their set up fine. so many forum members know so much it is pretty easy to find one that knows more than another, contrary to what you may think there are some out there that know more than you, maybe not on every topic but you don't know everything...its ok
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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mlpankey
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Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 7:46pm |
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why are you so argumentative if your asking to learn ? now your trying to argue that I am not the smartest person on the site . well start it as another topic and I will argue that I am if you need to.
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 10:11pm |
mlpankey wrote:
now your trying to argue that I am not the smartest person on the site . |
Here I go quoting Mitch again I don't see ANY argument. He is simply stating facts.
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Mrgoodwrench
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Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 11:27pm |
thanks tucker i thought i might have been typing angry and not seeing it! lol "now your trying to argue that I am not the smartest person on the site . well start it as another topic and I will argue that I am if you need to." i see we are in third grade again...i can't believe a post about clutches degrated to this...cotncrzy, i apologize for being involved in killing your thread. wi...nice clutch might have to have you build one for me someday...pankey, grow up
Edited by Mrgoodwrench - 17 Dec 2012 at 11:27pm
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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cotncrzy
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Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 6:33am |
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I want to thank everyone for their responses, and welcome more. There is lots of good ideas here. I knew the knowledge here was very abundant. There are suggestions here I dont fully understand, but they keep me thinking. Thinking is what everything is built of. I learned a long time ago not to ask someone a question and then argue the answer... I am new at this sport, we came a long way the first season, and it is all owed to people with opinions that offered them to me. I feel there is room for improvement in the tractor, and experince is the best teacher there is. I have very little, and there is tons here.
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C, WD45,WD puller, 185, 200, 7060 Red Belly, 7060 Black Belly,8010, and a R52 Gleaner, AND PROUD OF THEM!
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mlpankey
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Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 7:23am |
cotncrzy wrote:
I want to thank everyone for their responses, and welcome more. There is lots of good ideas here. I knew the knowledge here was very abundant. There are suggestions here I dont fully understand, but they keep me thinking. Thinking is what everything is built of. I learned a long time ago not to ask someone a question and then argue the answer... I am new at this sport, we came a long way the first season, and it is all owed to people with opinions that offered them to me. I feel there is room for improvement in the tractor, and experince is the best teacher there is. I have very little, and there is tons here. |
A good reply and your welcome for the thankyou from me if politeness matters to you .
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