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modirt 
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 Topic: Choke on 318 Chrysler
Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 9:51am |
So issue is, the old DewEze hay monster is powered by a 318 Chrysler engine. It was built on a stripped down Dodge D600 chassis.
The issue is I now have no choke, so when cold, engine is hard to start. Always does, but takes some cranking to get it going.
I fear what I have now is a mismatch of parts. Previous owner said he had installed a replacement 318 Chrysler from some industrial source, but may have retained the original Carter 2 bbl carb. The carb that is on it now has provisions for a cable operated choke, but engine is at least 10 to 12 feet from operator station so cable choke is a bad fit. Engine appears to have been setup to run on an auto-choke, and there is a connecting rod for it, but that is just there. They are not connected.
From looks of it, would it be possible to connect the two?
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modirt
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Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 9:54am |
Each full load of 150 bales, is selling for $1,200 in my area.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 12:41pm |
the little rod is connected to a spring inside the manifold that is suppose to get hot and WIND UP or WIND DOWN as it gets heat from the manifold... First i would look at that and see if that part works..... under that little sheetmetal cover.
If you can get the rod/ spring to extend 1/2 inch when it gets hot, then i would think it could be connected to open the choke as it warms up.
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modirt
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Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 1:00pm |
What I was wondering if the choke setup on the carb is the same for cable operated or the auto choke? Or if they are different.
Also in the way is the fuel line.......although I think the rod can be fitted past it.
As shown in the photo, the guy that rebuilt the carb for me left it as shown, with choke wired into the "off" position. He said that unless I was picking up hay in the winter, it wouldn't need a choke. He was sort of right about that, but pumping the gas and cranking it for 20 or 30 seconds is a pain.
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 7:07pm |
Under the carb is an exhaust passage way. It allows hot exhaust gasses from left bank (or visa-versa?) to pass thru intake plenum to a opposite bank. Anyway that assist heating automatic choke spring (as Steve Ill mentioned) & also atomizes carb gas/air mixture before it enters piston/cylinders. This intake exhaust passage way is notorious for “carboning shut”. Lots of carbon during start ups if fuel is on rich side &/or timing has been retarded 4-6degrees? If that’s the case, then engine may not run too good during warm-up, even if it’s properly choked? Got to remove intake to check/clean out carbon. If so, a hammer & chisel is usually what’s needed to break carbon deposit loose(sets like concrete?). Here’s a video showing choke setup on a 79’ dodge pickup. It might help to see how choke operates with vacuum pull-off. I don’t see that on your carb? But,,, maybe your 318 is older than 79’? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rwIg5TngLFE&pp=ygUqRG9kZ2UgMzE4IGludGFrZSBjaG9rZSBwYXNzYWdlIGNhcmJvbmVkIHVw
Edited by AC7060IL - 20 Sep 2023 at 7:09pm
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PaulB
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Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 7:13pm |
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It must just be too complicated to get a long choke cable. I see simple push pull cables available up to 20' in stock lengths and longer by special order.
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modirt
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Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 8:37pm |
 PaulB wrote:
It must just be too complicated to get a long choke cable. I see simple push pull cables available up to 20' in stock lengths and longer by special order. |
Was looking at it today with a guy who has fixed engines his whole life. We came to the same conclusion.
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festus51
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Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 9:22pm |
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Dodge / Chrysler engines have always been cold natured
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 21 Sep 2023 at 6:40am |
curious, so I google 15' choke cable...
gee 15 Canucks for a 15' choke cable, seems like an EASY way to get control of the choke. Probably only take an hour or two to install. can't see it failing in 2-3 decades either.
my luck though the knob would have to be pulled out to run, in for choke......
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modirt
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Posted: 21 Sep 2023 at 3:00pm |
Measured and looks like a 15 foot cable will reach from operator's station to back of engine, so have one on order. Even found an unused cable clamp in the right place to help route it. Will need to make a 180 turn thru a cluttered up area, but it may work. There is also an open hole in the dash just above the starter key, so in a perfect place to mount it.
Stay tuned!
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 22 Sep 2023 at 7:38pm |
Obviously, that engine had what was called a "divorced choke" operated by the exhaust manifold heat spring as both Steve and 7060 mentioned. That Carb has a provision for a choke cable, so the hard to find part is already there. Slide the cable/conduit through the hole in the dash, and secure the knob assy. Remove the wire the mechanic put in there to hold the choke open, and put the conduit of the cable in that cable holder. Run the cable wire through the lever and tighten the set screw. You have yourself a mechanical choke dude!  To support the long cable, a couple universal rubber clamps will hold it to the sheetmetal..... Steve@B&B
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DonDittmar
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Posted: 25 Sep 2023 at 10:37am |
We had an 87 dodge 150 with a 318 and an auto chocked. Worked half-assed. Seems like the choke thermostat spring was always rusting out and breaking.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 26 Sep 2023 at 6:21pm |
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If it was me... I'd put a fairly strong spring on the choke lever to hold it closed, then string a piece of piano wire from the OTHER side, through the bodywork to somewhere within reach of the operator station... and tie a pull ring to it. when it's time to hit the starter, pull the ring enough to close the choke while cranking, and then ease up on the ring once she fires... giver time to warm up, then go about your day... ??
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modirt
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Posted: 27 Sep 2023 at 9:16am |
The spring and wire thing might actually work. There is already a routing path with turning blocks in place. Previous owner had abandoned the hydraulic clutch setup in favor a mechanical cable system, which worked, but took a 500 pound man to stand on the clutch to activate it. I went back to the hydraulic system, which works much better. But that left all the cable routing hardware in place.
I ordered and have on hand a 15 foot choke cable. If install of that falls flat, the spring and wire thing will be given a hard look see.
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AllisFreak MN
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Posted: 27 Sep 2023 at 7:21pm |
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Could you still use the spring idea with the choke cable? Might take a pretty strong spring I suppose.
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modirt
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Posted: 28 Sep 2023 at 12:40pm |
First update:
Cable arrived and immediately ran into trouble before I ever got a chance to install it. There is so much friction between cable and metal jacket in the 15 foot run, cable won't budge. Put about 20 pounds of pull on it and you can get an inch or so of retraction, but it won't push back in. So not workable as is.
First thought is I may be able to cut off all but first couple feet of the metal jacket, then let the cable run through some loose guide clamps screwed to the frame. I have some hard black plastic tubing sold for use as electric fence wire insulator. The cable is a loose fit inside that. But problem remains getting cable to remain straight and not bend over that much length. Like pushing a rope uphill.
Also looked at pathways to route a wire using existing turning blocks. Can get it close, but a bracket or two would have to be fabricated to finish the run at the back of the engine, and wire would have to fit past distributor and coil, and be a close fit doing it.
Option C may be to simply loosen the wire now being used to hold choke open......close it temporary until she starts, then when warm enough to stall out, go back down to open it again. Most times it is only hard to start if it has been sitting for weeks or months. Poor man's redneck rig, but may work?
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 29 Sep 2023 at 9:52am |
This is the reality of jacketed cables- the longer they get, the more friction exists.
In marine controls, shifting and throttle are frequently done with push-pull cables, where the center core is pretty hard stainless, and the outer has both spiral and linear wire, so that compression and tension forces are restrained... plus... it has a teflon liner. While these cables work well, the control leverage is significantly more than what you could do with a common choke cable, and the COST is significantly more... not within realm of your choke cable.
Another way you could accomodate it, is to get a DC solenoid (like from an automotive door or trunk lock mechanism) and bend up a suitable bracket such that the solenoid can pull the choke closed, and spring returns to open... then pull a wire from solenoid up to your console with a pushbutton. You won't have 'half choke' (all or nothing) but it'd start... and if it stumbles a bit, bump the button once or twice to get it back...
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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exSW
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Posted: 29 Sep 2023 at 10:36am |
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I've probably got 500,000 miles in old Dodges. Those bimetalic chokes work well if you understand them. First check down in the manifold well and see if there is a nut and set screw on the bimetalic spring. If it's there you're golden. Then determine where the choke arm hooks into the choke linkage. With the engine dead cold adjust the spring until the choke just snaps closed. Fire the engine up and the spring should heat,open the choke and move the linkage eccentric to the locked open position. After it cools back off one pump on the throttle should snap the choke closed.
Edited by exSW - 29 Sep 2023 at 10:37am
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modirt
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Posted: 29 Sep 2023 at 5:54pm |
Going over post above, it finally dawned on me I have a shop service manual for a Carter BBD carb, and after hunting that up, came to conclusion the linkage on this carb is not compatible with an auto choke. Those include a vacuum setup to help open the choke when engine starts. Not only that, but the black rubber vacuum line that attaches to carb just below choke levers (runs back of distributor to run vacuum advance), is in the way of the rod coming up from the manifold. Rod is also at least an inch too long. End drops into a bracket that houses the heat spring, and is not visible for inspection.
If there was any doubt this engine and carb did not leave the factory together , that was cleared up.So pretty much back to finding a way to activate the levers we can see. Idea of driving down to Lake of the Ozarks and nicking a shift lever off an old derelict pontoon boat being given consideration. 
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 29 Sep 2023 at 6:14pm |
Hard to believe a NEW cable will not slide inside the spiral cover... I would complain and send it back... I have never used a 15 ft, but have used 6-8 ft with no problems.. We always sprayed WD40 type oil inside prior to install. Longer cables should have a cover with an extra .020 inch clearance to make them easier to SLIDE... but i guess the Chinese Engineers didnt figure that out !! 
If you use the SPRING RETURN, then all you need is the cable to PULL.... so you could probably eliminate half of the cover and only use where you need to go around the curve or stabalize at the ends.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 29 Sep 2023 at 6:22pm |
maybe you just got a bad one... or wrong manufacturer... Here is one on AMAZON with 95% of people saying "GOOD".... couple guys said they used it on the BOAT to go from motor to console... similar to what your doing....
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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modirt
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Posted: 29 Sep 2023 at 7:46pm |
The one I got was the twin to that.......also a Dorman......except with steel jacket.
Wonder if most of the jacket could be cut off, then run cable thru a long length of 1/2" PVC pipe till it get to engine.......where it needs to make a 180 turn into backside of engine. Only one way to find out?
Edited by modirt - 29 Sep 2023 at 7:48pm
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DiyDave
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Posted: 29 Sep 2023 at 8:58pm |
modirt wrote:
The one I got was the twin to that.......also a Dorman......except with steel jacket.
Wonder if most of the jacket could be cut off, then run cable thru a long length of 1/2" PVC pipe till it get to engine.......where it needs to make a 180 turn into backside of engine. Only one way to find out?
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Looks like that may be a locking cable. With it installed in a bracket, unscrew the handle 1/2 turn, then try to push/pull and see if it operates better...
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 29 Sep 2023 at 10:04pm |
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thats my concern is how STIFF does it operate... should be an easy slide... i would think 3-4 # pull would be plenty..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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modirt
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Posted: 30 Sep 2023 at 7:53am |
The pull knob does say "Lock" on it with an arrow point down. Not sure how that works however. There is a white plastic threaded insert the handle end of cable goes into......and have had that screwed all the way out......and that made no difference.
But I'll get it mounted up in a vice to see if I can get it freed up.
No instructions at all in package to explain any of this, but arrow points clockwise. Will spin it counterclockwise to see if that helps.
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modirt
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Posted: 30 Sep 2023 at 12:30pm |
OK, checked pull knob "lock". The white plastic insert has a collett on inner end. The knob, when screwed all the way in forces collett to lock down on shaft preventing it's movement. But even when backed out all the way, the cable won't hardly budge. Too much friction.
Next step is to remove most of the jacket to see if that frees it up. Stay tuned!
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DiyDave
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Posted: 30 Sep 2023 at 4:37pm |
If you can get it out 3" or so, then it starts to slide easy, its probably a fault in where the coiled casing is crimped to the head...
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