This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Other Topics > Shops, Barns, Varmints, and Trucks
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Cat D4_What is the Spark Plug for ?
 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
BuckSkin View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Location: Poor Farm
Points: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuckSkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cat D4_What is the Spark Plug for ?
    Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 10:55am
I found a Caterpillar D4 (7U) Bulldozer_1947-1959 sitting in weeds and briars over my head; it has been there a long time.

Due to the thick/tall weeds, the location, and the terrain, I could not get any good detailed shots.

Back home and looking at the pictures, I can see what is definitely a single spark-plug, complete with a plug wire, located on the right side, rear of the engine.

The engine is a D315 diesel and definitely has a big electric starter.

In all the specifications I have read, there is no mention of a pony engine.

What purpose does the spark-plug serve ?

Thanks for reading and all help is appreciated.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
NomoreJohnDeere View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Location: Missouri Ozarks
Points: 308 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NomoreJohnDeere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 11:11am
If it has a pony it would have two spark plugs
It may have had electric start added and retained the pony
HD3
Back to Top
Ray54 View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Paso Robles, Ca
Points: 4561 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 11:21am
Well into the 1960's the pony motor was the preferred stating method of Cat. The D315 was replaced in the late 1950's. Somewhere in the mid 1950's most Cat engines did have place for a direct start starter machined in at the factor. As direct start was used on generators, marine, and industrial applications. 

So today not uncommon to find a pony motor and direct electric start on the same machine. Pony motor parts are getting pricey so cheaper in many cases to put direct start on than fix the pony. But still many Cat fans that think a pony is the only way to do it.
Back to Top
BuckSkin View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Location: Poor Farm
Points: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuckSkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 11:54am
Originally posted by NomoreJohnDeere NomoreJohnDeere wrote:

If it has a pony it would have two spark plugs



If that be the case, would the second plug be on the other side of the machine where I could not see it ?

I am taking some napalm and some Asian Orange and a flame-thrower and a sling-blade and making another trip to get more serious about getting some good detail pictures.

It is a good sixty or miles from me.

I have seriously considered taking a lo-boy and just bringing it to the house.

I also found a Autocar with a Bucyrus-Erie cable well rig, buried so deep in the vines that I doubt a big dozer could pull it free; after seeing it, I just can't get it out of my mind; I would feel better knowing it was sitting out back here.
Back to Top
ac fleet View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Location: Arrowsmith, ILL
Points: 2320 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac fleet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 12:44pm
second plug is on the opposite side of them. --the 4 starting engine is kinda pancaked around the back of the engine and not on the left side like D-7's are/were.
http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/
Back to Top
DMiller View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 31200 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 1:04pm
More like the Motor Graders with the Opposed cylinder engine at the top of the Bell Housing.
Back to Top
NomoreJohnDeere View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Location: Missouri Ozarks
Points: 308 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NomoreJohnDeere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 6:10pm
yes, one on the other side
also a gas filler cap thru the hood
and another exhaust thru the hood for the pony, or a hole for one
the rope start pulley is under the air cleaner at the operators feet
HD3
Back to Top
BuckSkin View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Location: Poor Farm
Points: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BuckSkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 8:09pm
You guys must know your Cats pretty good.

I do see what must be a gas cap; right-rear corner of the hood, just ahead of the air-cleaner.

Actually, there are two caps there, one an each side of the hood; the one on the right looks more like a gas cap, while the one on the left is sort of weird looking.

The main exhaust, right side about midway, is a big tall mufflered affair with one of those big flappers on it.

Directly across from the main exhaust is a short pipe sticking up with an old Dr. Pepper can turned bottom-side-up over it; I can't determine from the pictures whether this pipe sticks through the hood, or up beside it.

At the rear of the engine, down under the air-cleaner, is a large grooved pulley held on by a huge nut; I guess maybe this is for wrapping a starting rope around; is that the way these worked = manually wrap the rope and the rope come free of the mechanism once it is pulled?

One curious thing about the spark-plug that I do see is that, instead of it being a decrepit rusty affair, it looks as if it were taken new out of the box last week.
Back to Top
DiyDave View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 51765 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by BuckSkin BuckSkin wrote:

You guys must know your Cats pretty good.

I do see what must be a gas cap; right-rear corner of the hood, just ahead of the air-cleaner.

Actually, there are two caps there, one an each side of the hood; the one on the right looks more like a gas cap, while the one on the left is sort of weird looking.

The main exhaust, right side about midway, is a big tall mufflered affair with one of those big flappers on it.

Directly across from the main exhaust is a short pipe sticking up with an old Dr. Pepper can turned bottom-side-up over it; I can't determine from the pictures whether this pipe sticks through the hood, or up beside it. Likely the exhaust or the air cleaner cap, for the pony motor...Wink

At the rear of the engine, down under the air-cleaner, is a large grooved pulley held on by a huge nut; I guess maybe this is for wrapping a starting rope around; is that the way these worked = manually wrap the rope and the rope come free of the mechanism once it is pulled?

One curious thing about the spark-plug that I do see is that, instead of it being a decrepit rusty affair, it looks as if it were taken new out of the box last week.
Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
Back to Top
NomoreJohnDeere View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Location: Missouri Ozarks
Points: 308 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NomoreJohnDeere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 8:54pm
pony air cleaner is it's own  oil bath unit on same side as fuel tank.
the other pipe thru the hood is the oil fill for the pony.
HD3
Back to Top
DiyDave View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Gambrills, MD
Points: 51765 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2020 at 4:58am
Originally posted by NomoreJohnDeere NomoreJohnDeere wrote:

pony air cleaner is it's own  oil bath unit on same side as fuel tank.
the other pipe thru the hood is the oil fill for the pony.


I stand corrected.  Its been a long time since I saw the D-4 my grandfather used to have.  Someone prolly lost the oil pipe cover and added the pop can, to keep the water out.  I also forgot that the pony's exhaust is piped into the exhaust manifold of the cat motor, to transfer heat to it, to make starting easier!Wink
Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
Back to Top
DMiller View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 31200 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2020 at 6:19am
Been a LONG time since used a Pony start, be a LOT Longer for me to ever use one again!! PITA to keep viable with the junk gas have now.
Back to Top
NomoreJohnDeere View Drop Down
Silver Level
Silver Level
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2017
Location: Missouri Ozarks
Points: 308 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NomoreJohnDeere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2020 at 9:05am
pony exhaust piped thru intake manifold to warm it

it transfers heat thru sharing water jackets
HD3
Back to Top
SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8251 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2020 at 10:10am
always disliked the pony on the twp grader but will admit the concept was a good one for cold weather operation. If you succeeded getting the pony running,you could warm up the big ol diesel by just waiting.....no ether needed!!!
Back to Top
JC-WI View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access
Avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: wisconsin
Points: 33830 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2020 at 12:29am
D4 7U
[TUBE]bS0BDcAqfm4[/TUBE]
Starting proceedure ...D2,D4, D6
[TUBE]Jcz7qPz8QTE[/TUBE]

D4 5T Side fuel tank
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.090 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum