| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Hunt4Allis 
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Case 580b?(not orange but?)
Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 9:57pm |
|
I'm looking at buying a case 580B with 6,000 hours. It's a diesel engine that looks to be around 50 horsepower. What are the things that people would look for when inspecting this motor and machine? It's a front loader with a backhoe.Thanks Matt
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 15 Jan 2022 at 9:57pm
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Phil48ACWC
Silver Level
Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Location: Vermont
Points: 288
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 6:59am |
The engine and trans is usually pretty solid if they were half way decently maintained. Look for hydraulic leaks on hoses and hydraulic cylinders. Parts are available at fair prices on the internet. Case IH dealers are ridiculous. I have a Case 580B now for 14 years. Work horse machine. Great to have around. Here's my 580B.
Edited by Phil48ACWC - 18 Jan 2022 at 5:51am
|
|
jaybmiller
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Greensville,Ont
Points: 22417
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 7:14am |
Used to see a LOT of them with city workers sitting in them, friend had a 680..much bigger. As Phil says, usual stuff..leaks and pins. Get it high up on bucket and legs, turn off engine,see how long it takes to touch the ground.
|
|
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 8:12am |
|
Great thanks!
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 8:13am |
|
What do they normally sell for with all working order with 6000 hours?
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 9:38am |
|
He has it listed as a 580B construction king, large front bucket and backhoe, he says everything runs great starts easy even in cold but does have some cylinder leaks which he has the kits to repack all of them to go with it
Shuttle shift works and brakes also work
I looked it up on tractor data it shows it was built from the '60s and '70s but he says it is from the '80s?
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 16 Jan 2022 at 9:40am
|
|
Codger
Orange Level
Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 2039
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 9:49am |
1975, or 1976 was the last year for the 580B. I had a 1977 580C, and 1980 seen the release of the 580D.
If I were in the market I'd hold off for a 580E, or 580 Super E as they had a much better driveline in them including the Cummins engine which is very reliable and easy to get parts for. Extendahoe, and 4X4 were getting increasingly popular in those years also.
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 80871
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 9:59am |
I dont think you can compare machines 20- 30 years apart.. NEW always has MORE STUFF.
We bought a fence row 530 backhoe about 10 years ago.. Motor had water and locked up.. I rebuilt that... Transmission, shift , rear end all good design and no attention needed other than oil change.
All the hoses were basically rotted. After the 3rd one blew, i replaced them all. Have rebuilt almost all the cylinders due to external leaks.. Couple of bucket / pins worn and needed replaced. Rear stabalizer arm sockets too sloppy and arms hitting tires. Had to weld up and grind bore back to size.. Thats about all. ... I think it was about 1970 model. For the money, you could not do better. We probably use it 100 hours a year.
Edited by steve(ill) - 16 Jan 2022 at 10:03am
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
DSeries4
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 7331
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 10:03am |
|
I would not trust those hours on a machine that old. Made from 71 to 76. How they were used and maintained is most important. We have a 580D here. Replaced all the hydraulic lines and put new seals in the cylinders back in the summer. You will probably have to do that too. Aside from that, it works great.
|
|
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 10:10am |
|
I understand I could wait to get a later model but this one is right down the road from me so I could literally drive it home without the need for shipping or cost associated with that. The pictures of this are all yellow and it appears to be more of a front loader backhoe than a actual case tractor which is what tractor data is showing the appearance of it to look like. This one seems to be more a commercial model. It does not look jumbled together it looks more like a modern backhoe that has a roof. It's not an enclosed cab but I'm just trying to figure out what to offer? He has it listed for $7,200, like I say it's a diesel that he claims starts easily and runs great... I would like to be more in the 5,000 range so I'm just trying to get a good ballpark number that it's worth?
|
|
DSeries4
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 7331
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 10:30am |
|
We are not the ones buying it and we have not seen it, so what we think its worth is irrelevant. He is at 7200 and you are at 5000. If it is good for you and you want it, start negotiating.
|
|
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 10:46am |
|
Okay I understand I just went on to the internet and found several comparable ones and got a idea of price. Thanks anyway
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 80871
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 12:37pm |
|
Like Myron said, $5-7000. is your range.. A lot depends on Location, Condition, and how BAD you want it.. If you dont get it and he sells it for $7K to someone else, what are your other options ? .......... 6000 hours could be a lot of hours on a small diesel motor, depends on how it was used.. Look at other wear and tear to determine.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 1:08pm |
|
Right that's what I'm trying to figure out is what exactly to look for wear and tear otherwise. He says that he bought it from the original owner on a farm so that could mean anything. He did say that it had a new injection pump and battery installed recently
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 80871
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 1:12pm |
|
old cracked hoses, leaks , worn pin bushings, general SLOP in linkage.... and see if it Shuttles FWD- REV without problem, stays in gears without jumping out ... tire condition ?
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 1:13pm |
|
Okay I'm not sure what a shuttle shift is but I will try to do some research and none of my other tractors are a diesel so I'm not sure what to look for on them for problems? He claims that it doesn't smoke but I thought most diesels do?
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 80871
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 1:18pm |
|
I dont know how the 580 works, but on our 530, you have 3 "gear levers"..... On is the transmission and you choose 1-2-3-4 gear.... BIG Second lever off the the left is FWD- REV.. so you leave it in 1st gear when loading and just use the F-R shuttle to change directions... Third lever off to the right is HI-LO... we never move that.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
ac fleet
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Location: Arrowsmith, ILL
Points: 2316
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 2:50pm |
INJECTION PUMP FAILURE!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol -- They are prome to that! Got 2 old 68 -- 580ck's here and both ate the injection pumps, and thats the only downfall I know of on them.
Second on the list would be the clutch UNLESS you have the converter drive in it which 1 of mine does and I never liked the converter drives on anything!
|
|
http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/
|
|
Amos
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario
Points: 1312
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 5:45pm |
I have had my 580B for about 25 years. In that time I have put 6000 hrs on it myself. It had 3400 on the hour meter when I bought it. I had to overhaul the torque converter when I bought it as it was slipping. Had the head gasket go about 5000 ours on the meter and did the injection pump about 1000 hours after that as it was leaking around the shafts when cold winter came. Pins bushings and seals in the hydraulic cylinders. Don't rebuild the steering cylinders when they start to leak, replace them as they wear inside the cylinder and will bypass. Its also cheaper to buy aftermarket cylinders than case seal kit for steering...my engine is 200 cu inch diesel, A great running engine, very good on fuel, Shuttle transmission can be one of two. A clutch and shuttle transmission or a torque converter and shuttle behind that with a four speed manual so you have four forward and four reverse gears either set up,
If you want one that is easy to work on buy a c or later as they re much easier to work on engine or shuttle or transmission. On the B you take the engine out to work on any one of those and the loader has to come off. They fixed that on the C with a short driveshaft you can remove to get the trans out or the shuttle or the 4 speed, not ter th entire backhoe to pieces to get to them
|
|
HudCo
Orange Level
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Location: Plymouth Utah
Points: 3526
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 8:15pm |
|
front pump coupler is probley about shot we just done about a year ago for a guy one side was rusted and seized bad
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 8:49pm |
 HudCo wrote:
front pump coupler is probley about shot we just done about a year ago for a guy one side was rusted and seized bad |
Who's front pump coupler are you referring to? These posts get so turned around that it's difficult to follow who someone is talking about after a while... Thanks
|
|
Amos
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario
Points: 1312
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 4:08am |
|
My front pump coupler, from the crank pully on the engine to the hydraulic pump, was seized when I bought mine, still is, its hard to change the fan belt that way but makes no difference to the way it runs.
|
|
SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8232
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 9:03pm |
|
Township had a 580B back in the day....would run all day and burn 11 gal
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 2:23pm |
|
So the 580B construction king that I went to look at and test out today has issues with the transmission which scare me(it only has two working gears out of the four), it's shuttle shifter did not work correctly.
To fix these issues do they need split in half and what is the cost on something like that?(it seemed very random as to when you could get it to go forward and reverse with the shuttle shifter) of course the person selling it said it just needs the linkage fixed and adjusted but they did say the transmission would need fixed
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 20 Jan 2022 at 2:25pm
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 2:27pm |
|
The seller is willing to take $1,500 off but I don't know if that would be enough to split one of these and get it fixed or not?
|
|
Codger
Orange Level
Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 2039
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 2:51pm |
If able to do the work yourself, maybe, but still doubtfull.
If unable to do the work yourself, would not be a consideration.
The 580b series had a "twin disc" unit that was known to be troublesome with high hours.
|
|
Amos
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario
Points: 1312
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 6:28pm |
My guess is the shuttle valve is your problem, with the shuttle transmission anyways, mine leaked oil out one of the spools when I bought it and I took it part and put seals and o rings into it. When I was in the case dealer later talking to their service manager and mentioned I did that he about fell out of his chair. He told me that they never do that because those valves are notorious for acting up and when they have one not acting normal they replace it with one they have and if it works right then they just get a new one an put it on. Mine is still working and does not leak...maybe i just got really lucky!!! As for you only having two gears that will be a complete tear down, engine, loader and shuttle transmission will have to come off/out to get to the 4 speed...lots of labor....lots...
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 6:50am |
|
It's a difficult decision because if I fix the shuttle shifter it does have two forward and one reverse gears that work so my thought is can I use it for a while if I get the shuttle shifter fixed the way it is? These aren't very common to find in the diesel great running version that it is and the front loader works great. I asked a local shop how much it would cost and they said it could cost $2,500 just to split it and that doesn't fix it That's just to split it. Then he said you could get into thousands and thousands of dollars? I think he was trying to make it sound way worse than what they typically take to fix so that I would buy a newer version that he has available for $19,000! I don't have that kind of cash but I could get this one and slowly fix it up if I decide. I took my hydraulic pump off my Alice Chalmers CA and rebuilt it so I believe I can fix the shuttle shifter valve assembly myself
|
|
Codger
Orange Level
Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 2039
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 7:20am |
Resealing a shuttle is not difficult or expensive. However it does have wear parts and if they are damaged or worn out, can get expensive. You don't plan to use the tractor day in and day out so if willing to do the work, the impact is significantly less than someone that would rely upon it for income.
The transmission issue could be and probably is very minor such as a broken pin, or poppet ball/spring issue. Possibly the shift rails of the transmission are either worn or their bushings are worn out. When losing two gears as mentioned, it's usually shifting fork related and this is usually not difficult to facilitate repairs on but much easier when the transmission is removed.
$2500.00 to split that tractor seems high but there is a lot of labor involved and you really need to have either overhead support, or specialty jacks/cribbing for the front half of the tractor. The front half likes to roll over to the side once it's lost it's mountings to the rear half so don't plan to use a simple floor jack and block to support it.
When I purchased my 580C it was in response of being told by the service manager at the local JI Case dealership they were a better tractor than the 580B series citing the shuttle problems. I never had an ounce of trouble from the machine so no direct experience making repairs; only routine servicing.
If it were me and it's not, I would probably not purchase this machine as it appears the owner is either unaware, has mislead, or misrepresented the machine from what you have posted. You have to keep in mind many times the initial low purchase price is just the introductory fee and sometimes it's best to look around before "diving in".
|
|
Hunt4Allis
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Location: Ohio
Points: 1160
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 8:09am |
|
No it's definitely not something I would rely on for income. It would be a purchase that I make and would need to work on it as I can to fix it up. It starts very easily runs great and have cylinder leaks but all of them do at the age of it. I plan on repacking the cylinders myself. You would think that if a shift fork broke off it would fall down into the gears and not allow it to move at all or have major grinding horrible sounds when moving and this one doesn't so it leads me to believe maybe something else like what you said. This one is the best that I've seen in a long time as far as the tires and it's ability to lift and dig is very strong so I believe the hydraulic pump is good.
|
|
