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Can You "HOTRODDEM:?

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PlayGun View Drop Down
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Joined: 18 Jul 2012
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    Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 2:02am
I used to build and race drag bikes my favorite was a Kawasaki KZ1000 with a heavily ported head and a 1327 big block kit. I did all of my own work and I happen to have a pro bench for porting and polishing and  also have older superflow flow bench, before they consolidated etc..... Do the engines (gas D-17, D-15) respond well the a nice bowl blend and a complete polish on the exhaust side? I wouldn't go crazy, just a little port matching and such, and maybe take 40 thousandths off the head. Would this be fruitful?
Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends!     Lonas
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Steve in NJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 7:10am
It seems to be these AC engines respond quite nicely to small mod's. I think it might have been Dick L. who said a port n' polish job on the little B,C,CA engines work quite well. Looks like the 226 WD45 motors are quite stout with some small mods also. A widdled camshaft from Barney, a little larger set of slugs for the cylinders, and some carb and Distributor work all come together for a nice combination once its dialed in. WI50 that's on here on occasions does a lot of that work on these engines. They seem to do some talking on the track....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FloydKS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 7:12am
Maybe some of the guys on here who do pulling can help you on this one...
?are you wanting to do this so you can pull the plow better?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 7:24am
The head is already mostly flat, so taking a half inch off doesn't change compression seriously. Have to play with the pistons to reduce the size of the combustion chamber.

Gerald J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wi50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 8:45am
Those little D15 tractors are pretty peppy to start with. 
 
I'm not going to say that you'll find any huge gains by doing what you want to do, but how can it hurt. 
 
I've spent countless hours at my Superflow also, I've spent a lot of time on the Allis heads but I have not done much with one from a D-15 tractor.  I've done a lot with the 201 and 226 heads.  Various valve sizes, valve and seat angles, various bowl angles to see what works the best. 
 
One of the biggest things that you can do is to radius the corners in the intake runner where the intake charge has to turn to one cylinder or the other or in a sense the T shaped port.  There's a fair bit of casting there, but don't get to wild.  The further you cut that back, the better these things flow.
 
So just a nice three angle valve job, a bowl blend and radiusing the corner and it'll move more air than the manifold or carb will anyway.
 
I spend some time on the manifolds cutting a radius on the bottom corner of the runner where it turns into the head, makeing it flat, or a D shaped port.  The carb flange and neck, do the same.
 
I'm guessing you just want it to run the best it can out playing in the fields......
 
I've made some heads and manifolds for some verry large or high speed engines for these tractors, but that's another story I'll save for later.
"see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GlenninPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 11:20am
you live in Tennesee. you should visit mlpankey
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.
From listening comes wisdom and from speaking comes repentance.
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred in Pa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 11:48am
Glen ,Glen .Glen .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D-17_Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 1:34pm
Sounds like a lot of work on a tractor you haven't purchased yet.
 
Frankly until you find that the purchase can't do what you need from running out of power AND it needs internal engine work I'd leave it all alone.
Yea, I can fix that.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OrangePowerGA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by D-17_Dave D-17_Dave wrote:

Sounds like a lot of work on a tractor you haven't purchased yet.
 
Frankly until you find that the purchase can't do what you need from running out of power AND it needs internal engine work I'd leave it all alone.
Sorta what I was thinking.
 
In my opinion, if you have do mods to get better performance from a work tractor, you would have been better off going to the next size up.
AC - WD
JD - 650
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 5:12pm
Yeah you should have a visit. Tony bright dragged one of those bikes with nitous for years . Yates run one with a turbo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlayGun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 6:50pm
I ran with Scotty Lee, at Lee's cycle salvage, and I ran by myself a bit at Cherokee raceway in Rogersville. Where you located pankey?
Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends!     Lonas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlayGun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by wi50 wi50 wrote:

Those little D15 tractors are pretty peppy to start with. 
 
I'm not going to say that you'll find any huge gains by doing what you want to do, but how can it hurt. 
 
I've spent countless hours at my Superflow also, I've spent a lot of time on the Allis heads but I have not done much with one from a D-15 tractor.  I've done a lot with the 201 and 226 heads.  Various valve sizes, valve and seat angles, various bowl angles to see what works the best. 
 
One of the biggest things that you can do is to radius the corners in the intake runner where the intake charge has to turn to one cylinder or the other or in a sense the T shaped port.  There's a fair bit of casting there, but don't get to wild.  The further you cut that back, the better these things flow.
 
So just a nice three angle valve job, a bowl blend and radiusing the corner and it'll move more air than the manifold or carb will anyway.
 
I spend some time on the manifolds cutting a radius on the bottom corner of the runner where it turns into the head, makeing it flat, or a D shaped port.  The carb flange and neck, do the same.
 
I'm guessing you just want it to run the best it can out playing in the fields......
 
I've made some heads and manifolds for some verry large or high speed engines for these tractors, but that's another story I'll save for later.


Do the heads on these tractors have allot of casting bumps and ledges? It's true I haven't purchased my tractor yet, but there is nothing wrong with dreaming. I am also looking at a D-17 and a D-15 here in town, they one popped up from a source here and one on craigslist the other day. I have slowed myself though as not to make a rash decision since this will be my only mule for now.
Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends!     Lonas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 7:41pm
cleveland
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 7:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlayGun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 8:41pm
Wow roller rockers on a tractor motor, man that looks good, are they chevy or amc style? Good lookin setup. and you aren't too far from me, next time I go to the horse sale down there I will try to look you up.

Edited by PlayGun - 26 Jul 2012 at 8:41pm
Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends!     Lonas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2012 at 8:46pm
Anyone with $400 can buy a set of roller rockers from Murphys Motor Service.

If you want to see some really neat parts where a guy made his own billet main caps, rocker arms, camshaft and headers look at some of wi50's posts. He's got an old video on youtube of it running before he built the downdraft setup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEL(IN&TN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 6:55am
Mark in Rutledge (almost your neighbor) is a big AC guy. You should talk with him. He posts here quite often.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlayGun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 10:38am
Originally posted by WEL(IN&TN) WEL(IN&TN) wrote:

Mark in Rutledge (almost your neighbor) is a big AC guy. You should talk with him. He posts here quite often.

I tried to go see Mark last weekend but I am i the middle of moving to the farm and things have been hectic. But we are talking and I called him last week and he offered for me to see his collection, sounds like a super nice guy.
Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends!     Lonas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 12:52pm
Alot of ac fans around rutledge. You mentioned you like adding cccs to the kaw.you can add 200 cubic inches to the 226
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DREAM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 2:54pm
Mitch, I was in Cleveland two weeks ago doing a job for Whirlpool. Didnt know I was that close to you.
I didn't do it! It was a short, fat, tall, skinny guy that looked like me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlayGun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 4:16pm
Yeah I had a 1327 big block kit, and the head flowed monster numbers, I can't really remember but I believe it was in the upper 200's. It ran high 5's in the eighth. That's cool, do they make a dome piston kit for them with valve reliefs? I would probably wait till something tore up, but it's cool to think about. :)
Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends!     Lonas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 4:46pm
I find it very rewarding to take a B or C out in the field that has had a Ah Ah few modifications. Like rooster tails in third. If you think it does not make sence then you haven't done it.  I never bowled or payed golf but I love extra horse power.
 
 
So does my wife Dixie.Wink
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlayGun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2012 at 8:35pm
Right you are my man, and once you have had a taste of the fruit from your labors your addicted, oh and by the way nice SSR. Hang on to that, when I worked for GM they said one day they were gonna be worth alot of money, (they cost alot anyway)
Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends!     Lonas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hudsonator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 8:14am
Originally posted by Rod B Rod B wrote:

Anyone with $400 can buy a set of roller rockers from Murphys Motor Service.
 
 
$400 is almost worth the price to silence that incessant "chatter" of the stock rockers.
 
I may look into those when "re-incarnating" my farming WD.  Might as well make whatever improvements necessary to keep her in the field for the next 60 years.
 
I used to pull, ALOT.  But, I dearly love working these old horses and listening to that engine work all day long. 
There isn't much a WC can't do.

WD's just do it better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean (West MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 9:30pm

That is impressive!

I will need to rebuild or swap engines in my B within the next 5 years and would  love to know what are my options.  Is there another thread that details your or other AC owners engine modifications?


Originally posted by Dick L Dick L wrote:

I find it very rewarding to take a B or C out in the field that has had a Ah Ah few modifications. Like rooster tails in third. If you think it does not make sence then you haven't done it.  I never bowled or payed golf but I love extra horse power.

 
Shift+R improves the quality of this image. Shift+A improves the quality of all images on this page.
 
So does my wife Dixie.Wink
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlayGun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 9:39pm
Are the stock rocker arms on the D and 100 series tractors "shaft style" ?
Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends!     Lonas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2012 at 10:31pm
I believe ALL of the Allis-made gas engines, both the small fours (begat of the B/C/CA, and also the WC/WD/WD-45/D17/170) are all 'shaft-style'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PlayGun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2012 at 2:31am
Originally posted by DaveKamp DaveKamp wrote:

I believe ALL of the Allis-made gas engines, both the small fours (begat of the B/C/CA, and also the WC/WD/WD-45/D17/170) are all 'shaft-style'.
 
Thanks Dave, alot of people don't know, but that in itself is a performce upgrade. Almost all of your top end Truck pullers and drag cars use a jesel type shaft rocker system because of it's relaibility to be able to turn way past 10 grand with out distorting and floating the valves. So are these AC engines amc derived engines or gm derived?
Hopefully Future AC Man! Ride With Jesus my friends!     Lonas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2012 at 10:07am
It would be more accurate to say that the AMC and GM designes, were derived from early industrial/Ag engines.

Allis used the rail-mounted full-pressure-lubricated overhead valvetrain, as well as pressure-lubricated main, rod, and camshaft bearings, used removable wet-sleeve cylinder liners in cast blocks, with inverted hemispherical combustion chamber, multi-stage air filtration, (what people now refer to as 'reverse-flow' cooling and a myriad of other design principles.

This occured in both the small and big engine as early as the mid '30's... features that automotive manufacturers didn't do until DECADES later.

Industrial/Agricultural engines have always been, in terms of development and testing, far ahead of automotive.  It's a much less forgiving application.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlpankey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2012 at 7:11pm
Play gun theirs a youngster that drives a white flat bed dodge cummins that pulls a allis in rutledge he is trying to make it out this fall with a 6 inch stroke 1.88 rod journal 8 inch center to center and a 1.3 comp. height with a comp cam aggressive duration for lift but wide 116 center. I should have keep that cam it was a natpa points winner in the 90s I  may be doing a hex adjust setup in the gear for him . under the roller rockers is titanium retainers and keepers on 5/16 valve stems in my pictures.

Edited by mlpankey - 30 Jul 2012 at 7:19pm
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