Unofficial Allis Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Other Topics > Shops, Barns, Varmints, and Trucks
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Calling the 454 Gurus,,,,,,

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
desertjoe View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2013
Location: New mexico
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Calling the 454 Gurus,,,,,,
    Posted: 10 Dec 2019 at 9:12pm

  Well,,I finally received the engine parts for the Black Beauty Silverado's new 454 engine but am thinkin the main bearings are wrong size. I had sent the vendor all the numbers on the back side of the rod and main bearings I took out but here is my concern.
 The factory register of the main bearings is suppossed to be 2.7494.
 The main bearing journals all mike in at 2.740 (several different places) , which tells me the journals are .0094 +/- smaller than factory, and would require .010 oversize bearings,,,right?,,,.0094 plus .001-.003 clearance= .010 oversize bearings,,Right,,??
 Any help out there,,??

CHIT,,I ain't even gots to the rod bearings,,,,YET
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
im4racin View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Location: Garrison ND
Points: 310
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote im4racin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 6:30am
.0094 material missing would be -.0094

.010 bearing would be +.010 material

-.0094 + +.010 = +.0006

If it had .003 oil clearance this would leave you with .0024 clearance.

You will have to install and plastigauge to be sure
Back to Top
ocharry View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 26 Jun 2016
Location: missouri
Points: 224
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ocharry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 10:44am
hey Joe,,,did you check to see if the journals are round?? that sure seems like a lot of wear,,,has the crank been turned or maybe it needs turned ??

yeah i dont think .0006 is enough,,,,prolly spin one before it got warmed up good,,,,i always liked to see bout .0015 clearance,,,,maybe .002

hows the cam journals and bearings look?? 

ocharry
Back to Top
desertjoe View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2013
Location: New mexico
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 11:59am

 Hey Ocharry,,like I stated in my last post,,The factory register for the main journals is 2.7494. I calipered all the main journals and each at several different places to make sure the journals are not out of round. The caliper readins are uniform at 2.740 throughout all the main journals, so I'm sure they are NOT out of round, BUT,,have been re-ground,,just trying to decide by how much,,, The difference from factory to now is .0094 ,,,so,,,if you allow what the factory recommends for oil film clearance of .001-.003, and you use the middle number of .002 and add thet to the .0094,,you get .011 as the actual clearance from journal to the ID of bearing babbit,,,right,,?? Then you gots to add some oil film clearance of .002 to the ..011 and you gots .013. IF you use .010 oversize bearings you should wind up with .0025 to.003  final clearance,,,,,, RIGHT?????  whew,,I ain't ever had this much problems before as the old bearings I took out did not have the oversize stamped on them,,,,chit,,
 dit, dit, dot, dit,,,,come in in4racin,,,,
Back to Top
chaskaduo View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Location: Twin Cities
Points: 3411
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chaskaduo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 12:34pm
Hey Joe look him up on the members list at top of page click on his username and you get the info he has listed on here for pm and email. He'd prolly love to hear from ya.

Edited by chaskaduo - 11 Dec 2019 at 12:35pm
1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
Back to Top
DMiller View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 10643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 12:53pm
Bearings need to be installed and plasti-gauged to determine is wrong or right, the shells get a pre-determined 'Crush' on install and are pressure loaded from that point forward.
Back to Top
Steve in NJ View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Andover, NJ
Points: 8953
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 1:22pm
Joe,
I thinks you need to purchase one of dem' dare 502's.  There ain't no substitution for cubic inches don't cha know.....!
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'IB, 49'G, 50'WF, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
Back to Top
LeonR2013 View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Location: Fulton, Mo
Points: 3317
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 2:40pm
Joe I agree with plasti-gage to check the clearance for sure. Sounds like you've checked for roundness, so you just have to make sure of your clearances. I assume you're not building this engine for a hot rod, so even if you only have .001 clearance or even a hair less, put thin oil in it to start and be careful. Only let it idle for a minute or so, kill it and let it cool. Even better, if it is a standard, leave the plugs out and pull it so it's turning the engine slow. It's amazing how this can loosen the engine, and with easy driving, you'll be fine. (500-1000 m.)
Back to Top
desertjoe View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2013
Location: New mexico
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 10:17pm

 Chit,,Steve in NJ,,,I'M IN,,!!!,,,but ,,,but,,,let's go whole hog and shoot for a bad Boy 572 with 9.8 to 1 compression (street friendly) and makin an easy 642 HP,,,tappin it's foot at an easy idle,,,,just a friendly "tap" on the loud pedal and FRY them 12" wide street tires,,,,,,,(we can all dream,,can't we,,???)ClapClap,,but,,,since I ain't gots $12,564,,,guess I'm gonna have to settle for this old wore out 454,,,,,,Wink By the way,,,,,,I couldn't help myself and ordered a stage 3 cam, lifters and heavier springs good for 7500,,,,ya know in case I gots to get out of somebody's way that might be in a hurry,,,Ya just never know when you "May" need some extra hoss's to do it,,,,,,Clap You oughta catch a look at them bish-in valve covers and air cleaner combo that mysteriously showed up on the Fed-ex trk the other dayWinkWink
Back to Top
desertjoe View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2013
Location: New mexico
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 10:25pm

 OH,,and by the way,,Chask,,, just got thru talkin with Robert up in Garrison, ND,,and he straightened me out on the bearing clearances and how to address the issue,,,, MANY THANKS,,im4racin,,!!  I'm gonna call them first thing and get the correct bearings coming asap,,,done lost 3 days messin with this issue,,,,,Chit,,,,,LOL
Back to Top
darrel in ND View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Location: Hebron, ND
Points: 7637
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 10:27pm
How old are you, Joe....? 21, maybe 22....? I guess you are only as old as you feel...lol.
Glad you are still having fun! Darrel
Back to Top
desertjoe View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2013
Location: New mexico
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2019 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by darrel in ND darrel in ND wrote:

How old are you, Joe....? 21, maybe 22....? I guess you are only as old as you feel...lol.
Glad you are still having fun! Darrel


    LOLLOLLOL,,,Chit Darrel,,,this engine ain't for me,,, but,,,,but,,,I am gonna have to take it for it's first "shakedown" run,,,,,,,,Clap
 I gots this Curtain Climber that thinks he gonna die if I don't finish Black Beauty quick so he can cram all of those $100 dollar bills in my pocket soons I give him the keys and the title,,,,,,,LOL
 He drives by the house every couple of days,,checkin me out,,,,,,Me thinks his daddy is like ole Shameless and gots plenty of them dollars ,,,so,,I'm gonna do the best I can for "Junior",,,,,,Clap
Back to Top
IBWD MIke View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 08 Apr 2012
Location: Newton Ia.
Points: 1059
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 7:58am
When I first saw this post, the 454 Casull was the thing that jumped to mind. Was going to offer some pet loads. When I saw the question it was like; Oh, that 454. Doh!
Back to Top
DMiller View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 10643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 8:19am
How many remember the Low Block GM Big Blocks? Was a heated argument between myself and two Less than Aged wannabe mechanics. 396/427 series. Some early 454s were also Low Block all the later ones being High Deck.
Back to Top
im4racin View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Location: Garrison ND
Points: 310
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote im4racin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 8:31am
What? The only tall deck big blocks were 366 and 427 medium duty trucks. All that were put in cars and pickups were of the short deck design.
Back to Top
desertjoe View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2013
Location: New mexico
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 8:48am

 Hey im4racin,,,finally got ahold of the vendor's and they agreed with your numbers and the correct bearings are on the way,,!! I went ahead and southern engineered the rods onto the crank and they all plastigaged right at .002,,so I'm good to go,,just waiting on the new mains to get here to finish assembling the lower end,,,Clap Many THANKS for all your help, Robert.
Back to Top
DMiller View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 10643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 9:25am
Check again im4racin, the later big blocks are all tall deck, the 496 and 502 marine blocks were Tall Block series.
.

Edited by DMiller - 14 Dec 2019 at 9:31am
Back to Top
SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 5154
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 11:04am
Originally posted by im4racin im4racin wrote:

What? The only tall deck big blocks were 366 and 427 medium duty trucks. All that were put in cars and pickups were of the short deck design.
I agree with this. After 454's a lot of things changed. Don't think the larger big blocks have much in common with the old RAT engines.
Back to Top
im4racin View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Location: Garrison ND
Points: 310
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote im4racin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 3:23pm
this conversation is about mark iv big block Chevrolet. If you would really like to confuse readers we should also include mark I stuff too but I doubt you would even know what those were
Back to Top
DMiller View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 10643
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2019 at 5:04pm
Been building GM engines since likely before you were born.
Back to Top
shameless dude View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Location: east NE
Points: 9215
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 12:57am
Joe...I gots a good 454 in one of my motorhomes here i'd sell ya! it's low mileage! you can pick it up when you come after your tractor!
Back to Top
desertjoe View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2013
Location: New mexico
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 5:46am
Originally posted by shameless dude shameless dude wrote:

Joe...I gots a good 454 in one of my motorhomes here i'd sell ya! it's low mileage! you can pick it up when you come after your tractor!


  What,,? The motor home or the engine after you take it out,,,??  I'M IN....!!!!Clap Just don't you worry,,Good Buddy,,,I'ma gonna go get all them things you promisin me,,,, some soon,,,Clap
  Say,,,,,!!  will thet motor home pull the trailer WITH the Chevy Allis  OK,,,?? Ya see,,I could fly into Blair International, get you to pick me up and ,,,,and,,,,,chit,,the sky's the limit,,I can tell,!! I can even help you finish up the "Outdoor Kitchen" and also introduce you to my version of smokin meats,,,,Dang,!!,,,this is gettin GOOD,,!!
 Best you  not make any other plans for at least a couple of week's stay,,,,any longer and I might be overstayin my welcome,,,,,Wink
 We'd have to reserve a day or so to go visit ole Les,,,see if mine and ole Thad's Vette is still in thet barn of his,,,,UMMmmmm,,,you DID know ole Thad is comin with me,,didn't you,,??
 OH,,and we cannot forget a couple of nights at them casinos where you win alla the time,,,I may need some spendin money,,,,,Clap
 Chit,,,we might be up to 3 weeks now,,,???Clap
 More to come later,,,,,,
Back to Top
ocharry View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 26 Jun 2016
Location: missouri
Points: 224
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ocharry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 10:38am
hey DJ ,,,man i had some stuff top do around here and i missed a couple days and now we gots a big pretty storm headed our way ,,,,so i gits on here this morn and poooooof,,,,yous talking bout another build,,,,or gather,,,,lol

so ,,,did ya gits yur bearyins fingered out,,,,,get them in and all gauged up ta see whats the clearance is???? and git her fired???? (back in the ol days when i wasa doing this stuff i had me an old distributor shaft i added a piece to ,,,then set it in the oil pump slot  and i would put a drill motor on it and spin that oil pump fur a few mins to git all the oil galleries and push rods and lifters and filter full of oil,,,just like it had been runnin BEFORE i fired,,,mebe yous already duzz thet kinda thing,,,just memberin here,,,,no fence ment ) and into the hands of thet youngster wit the fur sure heavy foot

ya musta cuzz now you is plannin a trip to shameless's house to gits another project,,,do some cookin and gamble,,,,,,so ol pal,,when ya git ta ol shameless's house could ya looks around and find thet machine thet makes the purdy and maybe dreen out soma thet jet fuel and pour in some watter or kero,,,or pull the plugs or dreen the oil,,,,ur sompin,,,,i know yous a sourceful kina guy,,,,fur an ol pal i was a meanin,,,,urrrrah,,musta had me a ketch in me throat ,,better now,,urrrrah,,see kinda still there,,,,one minute yous a hot rod builder and the next you is a world traveler connisour kinda guy

ocharry


Back to Top
desertjoe View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2013
Location: New mexico
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2019 at 9:13pm

 I,,,,I,,,UHHhhh,,,I'm gonna have to reserve comment at this time Ocharry,,,,I gotta see what ole Shameless's comment may be,,,ya know so I don't quee,,,UMmmm,,,,UMMmmmm,,,ya know mess up a possible great deal,,,,,,ClapClap
Back to Top
shameless dude View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Location: east NE
Points: 9215
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 3:12am
when you come, you gotta pull the engine out yerself, I know you knows how to do it faster than me. or, you could puts new batteries in it and gimme sum cash, rent a u-haul trailer and haul the tractor home with ya! it takes 2 BIG batteries. and...and...maybe ole Les will help ya? if'n you stay here, you'll hafta share the couch with a Lab and a Golden...they know how to share and gives lots of kisses! and i'll gives ya'll sum grill'in classes while yer here!
Back to Top
desertjoe View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2013
Location: New mexico
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 8:52am

 Hey, hey, hey,,,!!  This is gettin better alla the time,,,!!  We gonna have to go over to the other side of the big muddy and go get ole Les outa hibernation and get him interested in this world again ,,,,,,,I GOT IT,,,!!!  We can practice our "Ford Qualities" on his projects and get him where he ain't gots his head in them Fords alla the time,,,,You In,,??Clap

you'll hafta share the couch with a Lab and a Golden...
  That'd be OK as long as they don't mind if I bring the two Yorkies and the new Hungry along for the trip,,,,,Wink


Edited by desertjoe - 16 Dec 2019 at 8:54am
Back to Top
ocharry View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 26 Jun 2016
Location: missouri
Points: 224
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ocharry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 10:38am
hey,,,,hey,,,,grillin classes,,,,man gits a new motor home and a new tractor,,,go gamblin sleepin on the couch wit the best heaters in the world,,,,man what a trip,,,,

you best be careful shameless,,,,ol joe might not want to leave til spring,,,with you teachin him how to grill and all,,,,what a deal,,,,so i knows joe is a packin to head out

i gots to tell you boys ,,,,,my girl friends sisters boyfriend,,,wheeew,,,,made some peekin pies on his grill,,,,he must be like shameless cookin on the grill all the time,,,,but i tell ya thet was the best peekin pie i ever et,,,,i thought my tongue was gona smack my brain out,,,,course thet aint much of a job,,,,that thing was a wagin around for two days,,,,,mmmmmmmmmmm was they good

so joe when yous gits there and shameless is holdin class yous better pay tension,and larn sumpin..........jus sayin

ocharry 
Back to Top
desertjoe View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2013
Location: New mexico
Points: 10167
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 8:48pm

 Well,,,I tell ya'll,,,,,anybody that would forsake a nice, comfy, warm kitchen "Inside" a nice, comfy, Warm house just to go grill and smoke in an Outside kitchen gots to be plumb serious bout cookin and grillin ,,,and ,,,,and,,,,should be listened to,,,,,ClapClap
Back to Top
shameless dude View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2017
Location: east NE
Points: 9215
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2019 at 11:43pm
I dun grilled up sum pork (boneless) ribs on the grill tonight, it was about 70 degrees in that cook shack! down to my t-shirt cook'in! was brrrrrrrrrrrr cold outside!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum