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CA running problem

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Reeseholler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reeseholler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: CA running problem
    Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 1:45am
Working on a friends CA, I can't seem to figure it out. New plug wires, plugs, cap, points, condenser and I brought down one of my rotors. I tried timing it and retiming it, cleaned the carb up and put it back together. Reset it to factory setting (1.5 turns out) and put it back together, and nothing I did made it run better than before.

At the start of the video it is timed per the allis service manual. I adjusted it during the video to fine tune it and it ran a lot better, but the going from running smooth to rough and backfiring has me puzzled. I apologize for the dark video, the only time I had to work on it was at night since it was at his place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goPwzEr-H1k
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countryguy828 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote countryguy828 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 2:13am

I had an issue with my B once were it was running on 1 cylinder...turned out to be the rotor not turning. It has a fairbanks mag so I am sure that isn't your problem.

My CA on the other hand...It sounds similar to yours but worse. It has little power as well. I believe the issue to be in the valves. Too many other projects to do before getting back to the CA.
 
I would begin by checking your valve adjustment then move on to see if a valve is burned or needs reseated.
 
You mentioned new plug wires, I believe these need solid core copper plug wires, something worth mentioning in case you didn't know.  Autolite 295 plugs are good.
 
You said you cleaned the carb, another idea, swap over the carb for yours that runs good. My B with the marvel carb doesn't run very good unless the choke is on, I have cleaned it a whole mess of times, never gets better.
 
As for the clutch in make it run worse, I would guess its lightening the load on the motor a little so the governor is backing off a tad. Might want to check the governor linkages and make sure they are adjusted correctly. There is a procedure for it, but off the top of my head I don't remember it, perhaps someone else will chime in.
 
My best guess though is still that it is in the valves.
 
Good Luck,
Dave
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 5:35am
My first guess would be that the plug wires are switched. It could be valves not closing tight but I doubt that.
Only two ways to time the engine. First way would be engine not running with the flywheel set at TDC on the compression stroke with the rotor pointing at number one plug terminal with the points (just) ready to open. Rotate the distributor back and fourth with the power on to watch the point spark to make sure the points are (just) ready to open.
Make sure that the firing order is 1-2-4-3 and you are going clock ways on the top of the distributor.
 
Second way to time that engine after you do the above, is you are checking with a timing light and seeing the (fire line) on the flywheel while the engine is running.
 
There (AINT) a third way to time other than if you do not have a light and have it running on the number one way to time it, then by hand try to find the sweet spot.
 
You also can get that kind of running with the advance stuck under the plate the points are mounted. You can take hold of the rotor and twist it back and fourth and it should turn against the advance springs and come back on its own. If you can not feel the advance springs you may have found your problem.
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Steve in NJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 6:47am
Coming in on this late, but after reading your post, I had the same thought that Dick mentioned about the advance wieght or wieghts hanging up or a spring broken. As Dick mentioned, if you can feel the tension on the main shaft, and it returns smoothly, you're probably alright. If not, tear down the Distributor and check out the springs and weights functions. Many, many times when I do these Distributor rebuilds, the Distributor housing is loaded with rust dust and debris which will hang up the centrifical advance mechanism. After I glassbead things all up, I'll spray a few light coats of dry graphite on both sides of the wieghts so they operate nice n' smooth. You may want to renew the springs if the coils look stretched. The other thought I had was a vacuum problem. Possible vacuum leak somewhere around the manifold or in the carburetor being the engine runs smooth, then it goes rough and backfires. A lean condition will also cause that whether its carb related or manifold related. Give a little spritz of carb cleaner around the intake/cylinder head mating surface while the engine is running. The engine may smooth out if you find the right spot which would lead to a vacuum leak. Another way to check is pull the choke closed a fuzz and cut down your cfm intake and make your mix richer. If the engine responds to this and smooths out and runs smooth all the while the choke is partially on, its an air/fuel lean problem which could point back to vacuum again. Carb or intake.. You'll find it. It just takes some patients and troubleshooting...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 6:58am
Dick hit it on the head I believe and you said it at 2:27 into the video. "Sounds like it's missing on 2 cylinders." Pretty easy to fix, while it's running, ground out one spark plug at a time till you find the 2 that aren't firing right, switch those 2 wires around.This would be easier to check than tearing into when you don't know for sure what you are looking for.


Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 08 Mar 2012 at 7:00am
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Bob D. (La) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob D. (La) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 11:10am
Me, I would pull #1 plug. Hold finger over plug hole and turn over with crank until you feel it starting to blow compressin out #! plug hole.  put a piece of wire down plug hole and crank very slowly until at top dead center. Now pull distributer and check to see what terminal rotor button is pointing to. This will now be #1 plug wire. put wires on plugs #1 in that terminal and continue clockwise with #2, #4, and #3. It should then start and run on all 4. May have to clean or replace plugs at this point also. I really like autolite 295's. Also, even though it's distributer ignition, I would use solid core wires, not carbon core. Also, as stated before, before putting cap on permanent, make sure you try to turn rotor and make sure you feel spring resistance from auto  advance mechanism. Don't worry about finding something supposedly minor that you should have caught before. A couple years ago, I tuned up my 47 WC and three times in a row, had plug wires switched. Guess I can't count to four.
When you find yourself in a hole,PUT DOWN THE SHOVEL!!!
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Brian Jasper co. Ia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 1:18pm
Sounds like you don't have your plug wires on right or you have a cracked dist cap. Timing stuck advanced or retarded won't make them chug like that. Advanced would kick back on the starter, retarded (late) would make it labor. 1,2,4,3, not the more common 1,3,4,2 you find on late model 4 cyl engs.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 3:47pm
I had a C last fall with a magneto that had a stuck advance. They don't always stick one way or the other. This one would start timed at TDC and run like a fuel problem or wires switched. Put the timing light and could not fine the fire line with out changing gears for the rotor. Would not start after getting it running and finding the fire line with the timing light.  Put a different magneto on it problem solved. Only took a few hours of messing around with it.
 
Probly 15 years ago when I was still farming I had the same problem with an Oliver 1850. Fought that one for a week having the dealer on the phone several times. He finally said to take the distributor off the 1650 and see what happens. Ran like a top. The advance had gummed up and stuck. Both of these tractors popped and cracked and would barely pull its self with no kick back on start.
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Reeseholler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reeseholler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 5:02pm
I thought maybe the plug wires were messed up as suggested, but I went and looked at the video of mine then realized that I had them in the right order. I wasn't sure if the distributor was 1:1 with the crankshaft so I tried pulling the distributor going one more turn on the crank and then retiming it to there, and it ran the same. I made sure that when I put it back together, the rotor was pointing at #1 on the cap then went around from there. I thought maybe it was running really lean, but pulling the choke just made it run rougher. I guess next step is the valves and checking for a leak in the manifold. With that thing backfiring though, last time I tried something like that I got the hair burnt off of the back of my hand. Since this is two hours away from me, it might be a little bit before I can do anything to it. I have to wait until the starter gets rebuilt before it will be able to be started with that, and when I tried to start it with the crank, it would backfire through the carb. Thanks for the replies. 
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Reeseholler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reeseholler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 5:08pm
I forgot to mention that the plugs are autolites, I know I have 275's in mine, but can't remember the number on these. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 6:50pm
Like others, I'm jumping in late here.
I think you timed your cap backwards.  1243.  #1 is the radiator, and the rotor goes clockwise if looking from the top.
It is possible the valves are set wrong too, but usually you get some backfiring.  Check your wiring again, and then look at valves.  Set them to .008 cold and give it a rip.  Shouldn't be any hair burning as you set it when the engine off.
The ocasional pop you hear is the timing getting just close enough to try and fire one of the 2 cylinders that are dead.
 
Give me a call while at the tractor on our toll free number or if after hours email me and I will give you my cell.  I'll bet we can time it over the phone and get that little buggar singing.
JimD
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gary ny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gary ny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 6:51pm
I would try doing a compression  test i had a wd last yr that was skipping and it had a head gasket leaking between the cylinders .And a b that had a valve that was sticking did very similer things
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Glockhead SWMI View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glockhead SWMI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 7:55pm
I think ya dis the firing order backwards. it will run with them that way. double check. my ca had a valve stick once and it let the push rod pop out. it ran but popped and sounded funny.
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DennisA (IL) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DennisA (IL) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 8:04pm
 Is the gas good? Mine was acted the same way and I checked timimg,wires,plugs,carb & valves. Than I found out my uncle dumped in a can of gas+diesel mix.
Thanks & God Bless

Dennis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 10:01pm
I finally watched the video all the way through, and firing order is visible on the last minute or so.  You have the order right, but I think migh be times 180 out.
The "oil out the spark plug hole" is a little concering though........
 
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