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dfwallis 
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 Topic: CA Remotes for Side Flail Mower
Posted: 31 May 2023 at 10:53am |
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Can you add enough remotes to operate a smallish side flail mower to a CA? What would that entail?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 31 May 2023 at 2:05pm |
What "side mount" are you looking at ? Hydraulic drive ? Not enough pump..... My first question is what are you going to BOLT it to ? Need some type of frame under the tractor.... Then, they are PTO driven , so you need a shaft to the rear end and belt drive off the PTO ???
Most of the side drives have a RAISE- LOWER... and SHIFT FWD or IN-OUT.. So you would need two sets of hydraulics.. that could be done, but would take a NEW double valve working off the present hydraulic pump / hose.
If you had a REAR MOUNT... it runs directly off the PTO shaft and you just need a single acting cylinder to LIFT up and FLOAT down .. ??
Edited by steve(ill) - 31 May 2023 at 2:09pm
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dfwallis
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Posted: 31 May 2023 at 8:24pm |
 steve(ill) wrote:
What "side mount" are you looking at ? Hydraulic drive ? Not enough pump..... My first question is what are you going to BOLT it to ? Need some type of frame under the tractor.... Then, they are PTO driven , so you need a shaft to the rear end and belt drive off the PTO ???
Most of the side drives have a RAISE- LOWER... and SHIFT FWD or IN-OUT.. So you would need two sets of hydraulics.. that could be done, but would take a NEW double valve working off the present hydraulic pump / hose.
If you had a REAR MOUNT... it runs directly off the PTO shaft and you just need a single acting cylinder to LIFT up and FLOAT down .. ??
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Seems like lift would be fine with single acting (with mod).
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 31 May 2023 at 8:36pm |
YES... you need some type of 3 point or modified rear lift system.. Power UP and FLOAT down would be OK... You dont need any extra hydraulics other than what is already on the CA... That one has a MANUAL adjustment for side shift.. You set it and it stays at that point.....
That would be your best bet. Some type of 3 point to lift, and no hydraulic side shift... If the one you get has a side shift cylinder, then PIN it in one position ... make it manual adjust.
Edited by steve(ill) - 31 May 2023 at 8:39pm
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 31 May 2023 at 8:55pm |
I dont think you are going to get a TILT during operation.. If your cutting a SLOPE, then you get off, extend the lift arm chain / link on that side so that ONE lower arm raises higher than the other... When done, set back to LEVEL.
Same for side shift.. Set it for a specific job and leave it there.. If you want it "extended", then get off, manually move to one side with new pins on the 3 point... etc.
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dfwallis
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Posted: 31 May 2023 at 9:24pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
I dont think you are going to get a TILT during operation.. If your cutting a SLOPE, then you get off, extend the lift arm chain / link on that side so that ONE lower arm raises higher than the other... When done, set back to LEVEL.
Same for side shift.. Set it for a specific job and leave it there.. If you want it "extended", then get off, manually move to one side with new pins on the 3 point... etc. |
I was also looking at hydraulic offset such as:
I'm trying to decide on what is the best decision for adding remotes in the future. Quantity and type.
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im4racin
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Posted: 31 May 2023 at 9:30pm |
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I don't think hyd remote is going to be the issue when using it on a CA. It will be a hp issue.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 31 May 2023 at 11:11pm |
I doubt the "hydraulic" tilt and offset would be really worth the cost / time to install...
BUT... what you would do is use your PRESENT 1 HOSE as a PUMP OUTPUT and run that to a NEW Double stack valve... One valve for tilt, one valve for offset... Each of the two NEW valves would have two hoses OUT to each cylinder for "IN- OUT" stroke..... You would Engage your present hydraulic valve ( locked on) to send oil to the TWO NEW VALVES and then all operation would be with the new valves.... and you would run a NEW return hose from the NEW VALVE back to the transmission case of the tractor.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 31 May 2023 at 11:20pm |
something like this.............
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WF owner
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Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 12:40am |
im4racin wrote:
I don't think hyd remote is going to be the issue when using it on a CA. It will be a hp issue. |
...and a weight, or lack of it, issue and a lack of a frame on the tractor. I love the CA's but I just don't think they are a good choice for this type of application.
If you insist on doing it, there was a post a while back about electric (12 volt) hydraulics, like found on a truck mounted snowplow. It might be a more viable option.
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dfwallis
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Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 4:27pm |
im4racin wrote:
I don't think hyd remote is going to be the issue when using it on a CA. It will be a hp issue. |
At least one of those listed 24hp as minimum. 29hp with overbore kit should be ok.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 5:40pm |
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HP should be OK ... Weight is 650 pounds... thats about the same as a 6 ft 3 pt disc.. You might need 100# weight on the front end to help.... Bouncing can be a problem.. if front end does that, you could overload the torque tube.. Some with loaders have broken the tube.
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dfwallis
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Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 5:57pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
HP should be OK ... Weight is 650 pounds... thats about the same as a 6 ft 3 pt disc.. You might need 100# weight on the front end to help.... Bouncing can be a problem.. if front end does that, you could overload the torque tube.. Some with loaders have broken the tube. |
It's disk is 8' wheeled with single raise cylinder (if I get it repaired). This would probably be the heaviest implement if I decided to get it, but I may just opt for a 5' brush hog. Dad has a 6' but it is too big even for the farmalls. Stripped the gears out of the smaller one. But either way, I want to increase the hydraulics support. Adding fluid, wheel weights, and side weights shouldn't be a problem (if I can find side weights at a reasonable cost).
That 650lbs would be a lot closer to the tractor than a disc. Much less lever arm.
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dfwallis
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Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 9:03pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
something like this.............
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I like this one, but if the single outlet is in parallel with the lift arms, I'd have to force lift arms up to supply force to adjust the positions. Maybe that's ok, not sure its ALWAYS desired though.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 10:12pm |
OOPS.... Easy way might be to use 3 NEW VALVES... That way you dont need a splitter or isolation valve. .......... that way all the levers are together.
Third spool would be POWER UP and float down... or run the hose back to sump line.
Edited by steve(ill) - 01 Jun 2023 at 10:14pm
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dfwallis
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Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 8:53am |
steve(ill) wrote:
OOPS.... Easy way might be to use 3 NEW VALVES... That way you dont need a splitter or isolation valve. .......... that way all the levers are together.
Third spool would be POWER UP and float down... or run the hose back to sump line. |
I'd probably go all out and get the 4 spool unit :)
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WF owner
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Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 1:30pm |
Many years ago, I ran an offset flail mower on roadside ditches with a tractor a heck of a lot bigger than a CA. The left side had a lot of extra ballast and it was still sometimes downright scary. I think you are putting yourself into an unsafe situation trying to think about doing something like that with a very light tractor.
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dfwallis
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Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 6:09pm |
WF owner wrote:
Many years ago, I ran an offset flail mower on roadside ditches with a tractor a heck of a lot bigger than a CA. The left side had a lot of extra ballast and it was still sometimes downright scary.I think you are putting yourself into an unsafe situation trying to think about doing something like that with a very light tractor. |
They make lots of different sizes. Some suitable for a John Deere 1025R, which is little more than a lawn tractor. The idea is to make the job SAFER. Dad has a lot of ditches to mow and having the ability to extend to the side and tilt would allow the tractor to remain on level ground. Could also do it with a sickle mower perhaps. My main question was about the hydraulic mods necessary to operate such a device and how to configure it. I like the idea of running the single outlet into a multi-spool unit and rerouting the lift arms through to the new multi-spool unit as well, or a direct tap, but I'm unclear whether such a tap is available. If so, no problem doing it right, but otherwise, using the existing control full on and running it through the current single outlet (with added return) would probably be fine for this tractor. It's going to be a hobby tractor with some mowing use, perhaps small garden plowing/discing. So maybe just a woods belly mower ultimately. Dad does prefer a finished look to a brush hog, but he has 40 acres with a lot of mowing needed (not all 40 acres of course).
Edited by dfwallis - 02 Jun 2023 at 6:25pm
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dfwallis
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Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 8:39pm |
Here's a 60 inch with a D10, similar weight only couple more horsepower. Obviously a little underpowered, but otherwise seems to handle it ok (with loader on front):
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DiyDave
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Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 4:17am |
Problem with flail mowers is that they are horsepower eaters. Finding one that an older small tractor will pull means it will probably be narrower than the tractor used to pull it. Also, like in the video above, even at the tallest setting, they cut LOW! If the guy in the video above had cut 2 weeks to a month SOONER, he wouldn't have near the power issues he is having. Also, too, ditches and road edges tend to collect blown in trash, which strangles flail mowers, causing uncut streaks. I would recommend you look at offset bush-hog (single spindle) mowers. Lighter, cut better in higher positions, don't tangle in trash. Just my 2 cents... 
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dfwallis
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Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 10:00am |
DiyDave wrote:
Problem with flail mowers is that they are horsepower eaters. Finding one that an older small tractor will pull means it will probably be narrower than the tractor used to pull it. Also, like in the video above, even at the tallest setting, they cut LOW! If the guy in the video above had cut 2 weeks to a month SOONER, he wouldn't have near the power issues he is having. Also, too, ditches and road edges tend to collect blown in trash, which strangles flail mowers, causing uncut streaks. I would recommend you look at offset bush-hog (single spindle) mowers. Lighter, cut better in higher positions, don't tangle in trash. Just my 2 cents... |
Likely will go with old used 5' bush hog and a sickle mower. But I still would like to upgrade the hydraulics support to make it more flexible along with a custom 3pt mod. I like the bat-wing mowers, but $20000 for a bush hog? Jiminy crickets!
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 12:33pm |
I have an old fence row, side mount, sickle mower that someone GAVE ME 20 years ago.. Took it all apart and cleaned, lubed, new blades.. Put it on a Allis B tractor .. Use it to cut along the road about 4 miles, twice a year...Only run about 2/3 throttle so its not using 12-15 HP... Not real clean when you get green grass, crown vetch, clover , milk weed, etc.... But it does the job OK..... Im happy with the results for the money i have invested.
Sickle will cut stuff 3 feet tall or more.. Biggest problem is it LAYS IT DOWN on top instead of chopping it up into little pieces.
Edited by steve(ill) - 03 Jun 2023 at 12:36pm
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