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SteveM C/IL 
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
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 Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 9:03pm |
 littlemarv wrote:
During the summer I thought "I'll just pop the motor out and throw an overhaul kit in it" Sounds simple, right? My list went from Overhaul kit to Overhaul kit, thermostat, water pump, belt, carb kit, clutch work, oil pump kit, gasket set, fly weights, spark plugs, cap and rotor, wires, ring gear, lifters, valve guides, seat, seals, freeze plugs, rocker pads resurfaced, and I'm not even done inspecting yet! Jeez! |
You know it's never that simple.
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littlemarv
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Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: 15 Dec 2018 at 2:47pm |
Pulled the cam bearings out, and got the block cleaned up. Chased all the bolt holes with a tap. And, of course, I snapped off my tap on the second to the last hole. I was using the cordless ratchet to save time, and here I sit with a busted tap in the hole. Nice move, genius. Good thing I have tap extractors. I borrowed one once and the next week I had a set. If you own a tap, you should own the tool to get it out once you snap it off. They really work slick. They have four flutes that slid in the tap, then a collar that slides down and you turn the broken piece right out. Time saved? 0 minutes. Oh well... Cleaned all the gasket surfaces, and the liner bores. On the last engine I did, I actually had too much liner protrusion. Don told me to scrape the counterbores with a razor blade, and sure enough, they settled right down where they needed to be. So I scraped these right away. Brought home my straightedge. I have like 4 different feeler gauge sets, and can currently find exactly none of them. So, I did the old flashlight trick. I can sure see light under it. I will have the engine machine shop double check it, may have to surface the top and recut the counterbores. I pulled the four studs out of the front, to see why the odd one was coarse thread. Looks like the stud snapped off at some point, and they just drilled and tapped a 1/2" hole right into the 5/8" stud. That sure ain't no helicoil. All four holes have iron broken around the holes. Wonder what ever happed to cause this? We may never know. Guess its worked this long, I may as well put the odd one back in. Got my bolt bin all cleaned up. Last spring, an ad popped up on Craigslist for an Allisce Chamblers Bee engiune or something like that. And it was downtown Marshfield. Well, old littlemarvey ain't gonna let that go uninvestigated, that close to home. I went and took a peek at it. Some guy bought it for a father son project that never materialized. He said it should run if you hooked a gas can up to it. I don't know how much he knew about engines, because there was no mag, wires, or carb on it. And it was stuck. I took it off his hands for him and tore it down and cleaned it up. Stashed it all under the old tractor table for spare parts. You can't have too many spare parts these days, they don't make this stuff anymore... Anyways, I guess the block and rods go to the machine shop next. Line bore the mains, size the rods to eliminate the shims, and clean up the top of the block and counterbores as necessary. Thanks for looking.
Edited by littlemarv - 15 Dec 2018 at 2:48pm
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B26240
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Posted: 15 Dec 2018 at 3:50pm |
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Marv you do nice work, I really enjoy your pictures. Thanks for sharing with us, Mark
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 15 Dec 2018 at 6:42pm |
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What does it cost to have the block line bored and to have the rods sized for no shims? I can't even find a local shop that will do it.
On my WC, the main bores capped up with .010 shim, were somewhat out of round, so I made a .006 shim for them and got the good Sunnen hone out from where I worked. I don't remember where I got the size measurement from, but I honed them round and with new bearings and a re-ground crank , it rolled like new with .0025-.003 clearance according to the plastigauge.
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littlemarv
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Posted: 15 Dec 2018 at 7:27pm |
Line bore and size four rods is $204 It started out as Northern Auto. It is Advanced Auto now, they bought Carquest out, who purchased Northern Auto quite a few years ago. I work with a fellow who worked at Northern Auto, his uncle owned it I think.
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The mechanic always wins.
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Sugarmaker
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Location: Albion PA
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Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 8:47am |
Marv, Your making more progress than I am. Would you stop showing the darn very organized bolt box! That just isnt right! I woke in the middle of the night last night trying to think about where all the bolts are for my complete tractor tear down!:)
I couldn't quite see where the broken casting bolt holes were. (not familiar with these blocks). (For what its worth) I think the guy doing my WD45 block charges about the same to line hone the mains and hone a set of rods!
I need to call him and have him check the top of the block for flatness again too! This is the block that I had to beat the block down over the stuck pistons. ( Of course I had a block of wood in there.) Hope I didnt damage it? Now would be the time to check and re-flatten, Would need to re seat the liner depth too.
Sorry to spew forth in your thread. Just had to get it out.
Your doing a great job! Good to have a spare engine too! That's what helped me to move forward on my cracked block problem. I should have a broken tap extractor set too. Nice tool! Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 16 Dec 2018 at 8:48am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Dick L
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Location: Edon Ohio
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Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 9:25am |
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Sugarmaker, the broken out holes is where the front bolts to the block. I would guess that the front was being removed and the studs came out of the block with the nuts on one side and was loose while being taken out on the other side with the front not supported. When the bottom stud was almost out the front wend side ways breaking out the last thread on the bottom and breaking off the top stud as it fell. I saw pictures in the past where people had removed the front tires before removing the front. I could see the heavy front getting away from me and made sure when jacking and blocking the engine to remove the front that the front tires were on the ground with only the weight off the tires. I then hooked the engine lift to the top with two of the radiator support bolt holes with a chain.
I never thought of taking pictures of that.
The above is only a guess and speculation but I would bet I am not far off.
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littlemarv
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Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 9:35am |
Dick has a good theory there. The B,C, and CA do not have framerails like the W series and on up do. The bolster bolts directly to the engine block. (Do I dare call it unibody?!?!) Anyways, I had some ideas bouncing around the old brainbox. T boned by an idiot in a car and sheared off the front end? Smashed into a large sharp dead furrow by a newbie kid and stove the front end clean off? Going for the gusto in the 15,000 lb class at the Supernational tractor pull and after the full pull when he pushed in the clutch and the front came crashing down to earth the studs failed from excess engine heat? I like Dicks explanation way better.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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littlemarv
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Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 9:50am |
And Sugarmaker, you can expect progress to slow a bit. I am reading your 45 thread from start to finish. I have looked at it from time to time, and even commented once on it awhile ago. Last night I decided to read the whole thing at once to get caught up. Got to like page 17 and had to go to bed, so I will finish it later today. I sure hope I can work on tractors like you do when ( and IF) I am able to retire. Someone in your post said that one of those small 110 welders is excellent for rim repair.... Hmmmmmmm, Merry Christmas to me! That way I can fix those spinout rims here instead of lugging it all down to the shop...
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 10:42am |
Marv, Dick, Thanks for the insite on the broken out holes. We had a Allis B on Dads dariy/crop farm. I spent many hours on but never had it apart. On the welder and I know you would do this anyway, Check them out good, budget at least 5-600$ maybe more?? and get one with the tank of gas Shielded not the gas in the wire. Miller, Lincoln, Hobart all are probably good but you get what you pay for. I have a antique Mig but it has saved me a bunch, or made more work for me, not sure which. You will need to lease a tank for 99 years. Surprised you don't have one! Sounds like a real good gift to you!
Reading any of my topics is probably good around bed time, should put you right out for the night, and or give you nightmares too! Just refurb, clean, and paint projects with a little color commentary added in during the slow times.
Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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littlemarv
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Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 6:33pm |
Reassembled the rods and put the main caps in the block. Ready for the machine shop. Even printed out my own purchase order with critical info and what I want done, to eliminate foul ups. Meanwhile, moving on to this guy. I wiggled and wiggled on the brass tee standpipe thing, and it came right out. Somebody been in here before and peened it with a punch to tighten it up. Looks like they even nailed the collar that is supposed to rotate around the shaft. After puzzling over it awhile, a piece of brass started peeking out. Not sure if this is supposed to be a thin bushing, or if someone slipped this in there to tighten it up? I can't get the shaft out of the collar due to the peening. May have to sand it off a little to get it out. Then put it back together and figure out a way to get it driven back in the housing tightly. Thanks for looking.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Dick L
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Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 9:15pm |
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The pin is not supposed to come out of the cover. The tee comes out and the lever lifts off. To JB Weld it in the cover you will want all those dimples to help hold the pin fast.
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littlemarv
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Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 4:58pm |
Thanks for the tip. I gently clamped the peened part in a vise and removed the brass tee. Stirred up a little JB Kwik and reinstalled the standpipe. The last 1/4" felt real solid when I tapped it back in, and the JB weld should fill in the rest. Wiped off the excess and reassembled. That wasn't too bad of a job, hopefully its a permanent repair. As long as we are in the governor vicinity, may as well take a closer look at this. This thing has three strikes going against it. 1. One flyweight is worn quite a bit but the pin is tight. 2. The other flyweight is worn quite a bit AND the pin is flopping around in its bore. 3. When I was gently easing the tiny clips out, one shot out from under my finger and was last heard bouncing off the washing machine, never to be seen again. Think I might just bite the bullet and get a whole new assembly, I see they are still available.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 5:49pm |
Marv, Yea this looks like what I usually get into. Had a ball bearing detent from something bounce across the shop floor. It came out of hiding several months later! I took a ride to Sandy Lake Imp. for parts again today. Nice ride with my friend Ted "the Allis guy"! We solved most of the worlds problems! We met day 1 of first grade 60 years ago. Good to get back together and spend some time talking tractors and families! Your doing good on your tractor! Great pictures! Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 27 Jan 2019 at 8:34am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Ted J
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Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 8:28pm |
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I like working in a 10' x 10' envelope that I made out of plastic. Just build yourself a framework and put plastic around the whole thing. I even have a door that I can close tightly. At least when "that" spring with the detente ball lets go, you know it's INSIDE of that area and it's USUALLY easy to find. Except when it allowed itself to be magnetized and is stuck to the leg of your shop stool....took me a while on that one... The 'tent' has paid for itself at least twice now.....
Good luck Ryan and keep junior busy!!
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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littlemarv
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Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 8:00pm |
Perhaps the best Christmas present of all... I asked a machinist pal to make me a pilot for centering the front cover during installation. I told him to use a scrap of whatever he had laying around. So, of course, a few weeks later he hands me a polished piece of aluminum. Sheesh! So, if anybody wants the specs, it is 1.503" inside diameter, 1.995" outside diameter, by 3" long. Thanks for looking.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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littlemarv
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Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 8:24am |
Finally getting back to it... Got the rods sized and the block line bored. They also surfaced the top deck and re-cut the counter bores. The old headgasket was looking a little dark on the fire rings between two and three. They needed a liner to complete the process so I just ordered a complete overhaul kit through them. So, I thought I'd better plunk the liners in with no O-rings and check the protrusion before I begin assembly. Spec is 0.002"-0.005". I use some fiber washers so you don't mar the top of the deck or the liners. Usually there are bolt holes all around the liners so you can just clamp them down, but on this engine I had to get creative with a piece of flat stock to hold the liners down. I measured on several spots around the liner, they are looking nice and even. So, marked the liners so they go in the same hole. O.K. ,looks like the block is a go. Drew lines on the block and the cam bearings for alignment. I was going to put them in the freezer so they contract and slide in easier. Then I realized that its colder outside than it is in the freezer. Run downstairs and pull them in one at a time. Line up my marks and in they go. Had the lifters refaced. But, before the cam goes in, need to check the next area of concern. The crank had way too much end play when I took it apart, and the one thrust surface looked a little rugged. So, I installed the main bearings and set the crankshaft in to check the end play. Spec is 0.001"-0.005". I came up with 0.0015" Whew! No additional machine work needed there.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 8:45am |
Ryan, Excellent job on the B engine as I expected! Your pictures are always good too. Takes a lot of time to stop and get set up for those. That may help me when I get into my engine assembly this spring too.
That alignment tool is a nice piece too!
Looking at the governor cover pictures. Allis engineers got everything that could out of that little stub shaft! Supports a rotating assembly, is press fit into a aluminum housing. is hollow to allow oil to flow through. has attachment features for a threaded brass fitting, Secures the pivot arm. Its a very busy little piece!
Keep at it! Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 27 Jan 2019 at 8:56am
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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IBWD MIke
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Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 9:20am |
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Looks like you are well on your way to a fine overhaul, one that should outlast you and your children!
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Dick L
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Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 12:11pm |
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I have preached (details) since I have been on the different tractor boards. You have captured a lot of the details in your pictures that will help many. Fantastic pictures!
I know that it is not possible for a lot of people learning to have access the measuring instruments. Feeler gages and straight edge will work in a lot of cases following the points you are pointing out.
Pictures I wish I had done was checking the piston fit to the cylinder wall when using used pistons as well as fitting rings in cylinder walls on a rebuild.
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 1:20pm |
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That I would also like to see dick, and littlemarvs tutorial has been great. His son will benefit in many ways from his fathers teachings.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Reindeer
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Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 6:56pm |
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Kudos on the great work, and excellent photos. Very informative. We all appreciate the work that goes into setting up and photographing all the steps, when you just want to put it together and hear it run!!
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littlemarv
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Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 9:31pm |
Well, after flopping the block around on the table a few times, I decided to give in to the engine stand idea. The old lady is going shopping today, might as well have her pick one up for me. They have a 750 pound one in stock at Harbor Freight for $44.99 and I found a 20% off coupon, plus another coupon for a free multimeter with any purchase! Its like Christmas in January! Put the two munchkins on assembly While I ran to Fleet and picked up a large bag of lockwashers. I always replace the lockwashers on old iron like this. So, another project to keep them busy on a cold winters day. Got the block wrestled into position. Glad I got the T shaped stand, it just fits inbetween the tractor table and the furnace. So I can roll it out to work on it, then tuck it out of the way when I'm not. My god, the stuff that accumulates in ones basement! At any rate, the engine stand is just the right height for the kids. So, we took the crank back out, Unwrapped the cam and test fit it, Lubed it up, and slid it home. Lubed up the main bearings, and set the crank into place. I showed him how the cam turns at half engine speed, so we had to twirl it around a few times to see if the marks lined back up, and sure enough, they did! (Don't really know what I would have done if they didn't) So, that's enough for this evening. Bring my good torque wrenches home after work tomorrow, then we can torque the mains, flip her over, and set some liners home. Thanks for looking.
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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littlemarv
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Posted: 27 Jan 2019 at 9:33pm |
And yes, I told junior to go put some shoes or at least slippers on, but you see how far that went. He drops something on his foot, then he will listen. School of hard knocks doesn't take a snow day, even if classes are cancelled tomorrow!
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The mechanic always wins.
B91131, WC23065, WD89101, CA29479, B1, Early B10, HB212, 416H
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 8:48am |
Ryan, Great to get the kids involved! They will remembner that forever! Yes I think your going to love the engine stand. And if like me I have found several other uses for them too! Like my 45 front pedestal. I was even thinking about putting my torque tube on there to spin it during clean up and assembly! Yes I have a garage full of Allis parts too. I just work around them, Knowing most will be back on the tractor in the future. How much did you have taken off the lifters! By the way hope you have those in there too!:) Weather is cold here I have the little electric space heater going to try to get the garage up to 50 F. It got up to 60 F yesterday and I had to take my jacket off. I was thinking if it was 95 outside the 60 degree temp would be real refreshing! Carry on with the B rebuild! I will be checking in on your progress. You made a big move there by getting the engine kit from Reliance already. I havent pulled the trigger on that yet! Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker
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Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 8:57am |
Ryan, I had this brain fade that said I had to bring the block to the stand and bolt it up. I did something simple that made the engine stand much more pleasant. Took the spinning adjustable attachment part out of the stand. Bolted it to the block and then. Got it close to the stand and lifted / moved the much lighter stand to get the stand base back on spinning part. Seemed to make it go a lot smoother to get set up on the stand. I think all men should be born with a 1 ton jib crane, in a 40 x 60 shop! Regards, Chris |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Ted J
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Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 3:19pm |
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I would almost agree with you Chris, but 40 x 60 is too small.
I was gonna say that junior is a typical boy. I hated shoes too when I was that age. It's a waste of your time putting on shoes. You'd rather just get doing what ever it is!! Like fixing engines!! Just think of the fun he would have had at Lon's place!! He'd probably STILL be there...
Keep those pics coming and just 'git er dun'.
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Alvin M
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Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 3:43pm |
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lower governor pin is in the wrong way that is way the clip in cutting into the weight
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Jim Hancock
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Posted: 28 Jan 2019 at 5:25pm |
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Lookin' good!!
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How blessed we are by HIS GRACE!
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farmboy520
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Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 10:15am |
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How's the engine coming together?
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On the farm: Agco Allis 9695, 7060, 7010, R66, Farmall H, and Farmall F20 (Great Grandpa's)
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