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Buying a Tractor- Opinions on this Allis 7040?

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matador View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Buying a Tractor- Opinions on this Allis 7040?
    Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 7:55pm
A little about ourselves since I've been gone for awhile from the forums:

We farm about 100 acres, all small grains, and run a straw bale business on the side. Our only tractor is a White 2-105, which is giving up the ghost (Engine needs to be rebuilt and the clutch is going out), so we're looking to replace it. We both loved the White- it felt about the right size to us, and the transmission setup worked nicely with our small square baler. I'm not sold on any particular brand, but I've been really impressed with our Gleaner, so I'm definitely open to something orange.

--------

I found this Allis 7040 coming up on an online auction that's close enough I could pick it up and save on trucking: https://www.bigiron.com/Lots/Allis-Chalmers70402WDTractor-3

My worry is that it's too big to run our baler (New Holland 276). I know it's complete overkill, but I'm just afraid that it's too big to handle the job. Am I worrying about nothing, or is this a concern?

If this tractor will work, I'll go take a look at it. I don't know anything about these machines though- please give me the good, bad, and ugly on them so I know what to look for. Whatever tractor we get will probably be my father's last- I want it to be a good one that'll last him. I'll continue the straw operation when he retires, but not the rest of the farming

Our budget is about $7500, and we're flexible. We just need something with 100HP or more, and a cab. If this machine isn't a good fit, or if any of you are selling a tractor, please let me know. The last time I bought a machine off this forum, we ended up with what my father called "the best combine he's ever run" Wink


Edited by matador - 06 Nov 2019 at 7:56pm
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darrel in ND View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 9:00pm
Welcome back to the forum Matador. I don't exactly know what to tell you about the 7040. Glad that you are leaning towards orange. For your use, a 7040 probably wouldn't be ideal, but would work. I certainly wouldn't pay 7500 for it. I really can't think of any weak points with it that wouldn't be present on any other 40 year old tractor. 7040's were a rock solid tractor, but depending on care, or lack of, that previous owners gave it can have a lot of bearing on it. Not the easiest tractor to get in and out of, but very cozy inside. Some other colors are equally as hard to get in and out of. Darrel

Edited by darrel in ND - 06 Nov 2019 at 9:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 9:06pm
Long time no hear!  I was thinking about you recently, the fact that you hadn't been on the forum for a while.
As for the 7040, they are a good solid tractor, that one is getting up in hours but if the price is right, say $5,000 or less, you probably won't go wrong.  I wouldn't worry about having too much power for your baler, you just have to not push it to hard.  To be honest,
I think the white trans is better then the AC because it has the 3 speed power shift.  For about a thousand bucks you can buy a rebuild kit for the 105 and a clutch shouldn't cost much more then $100 if it just needs a clutch disk.  That said, having two tractors can make life a lot easier if one goes south.  My 2 cents.


Edited by JohnCO - 06 Nov 2019 at 9:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 9:34pm
I need to be like five of me- I've checked in here now and again, but never had the time to post, or anything to say other than "*$%@ neighbor's John Deere broke again"

I plan on keeping the White and getting it fixed someday (That's farmer slang for "I'll probably never actually get it done", right?)

There's a reason I'm nobody's mechanic. I can't imagine how much money it would cost to have a shop split the tractor to put a new clutch in there (Throwout bearing is at least part of the problem, but I haven't driven it since the clutch acted up). The engine has been putting oil in the coolant for the last few years (She needs a quart of oil every two hours), so I'm pretty sure the head gasket is screwed up, and I can't imagine how bad the rest of the engine looks

I'm a huge fan of the White transmission- the Over/Under works great for baling. The problem out here is just that you don't find tractors. I've checked the dealer pages- the Whites and Allis stuff I've found at dealers seems to be more than we can afford, and most of the stuff out here is John Deere, which will be way over budget.

I'm hoping we can find some private seller with an extra tractor that they'll sell, but out here, it just isn't happening. That Allis looks like one of the only things I've found that might be in our price range. If it wasn't for the tillage, this would be way easier! I've found tons of 80 HP baling tractors Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael V (NM) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2019 at 10:45pm
If oil is getting in the coolant, I would suspect the oil cooler first, that would be an easy fix...
I looked at that 7040,but decided it was to far away..if its close enough, go look and see if you can test drive

I used my 7060 on my 4570 hesston baler, I thought it worked great, the cab does seem kinda small and not for someone that might be claustrophobic, and like Darrel said, their kinda hard to get into,I put one of toms door shock kits on mine.now I'm gonna try and build some different steps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 8:03am
It’s close enough to test drive. If I had to, I could even drive the tractor home, though it would be way easier to just use one of the neighbors Kenworths to get it. I just want to make sure I’m not walking into a machine that’s a known problem model, or that just wouldn’t work for us. Glad to hear that you could bale with a 7060- that eases my largest worry a lot.

What we really need is someone with another 2-105 or 7000 for sale. Unless one of you guys here is selling something, this 7040 may be one of the only feasible options
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 8:23am
Yea, you'll want to rebuild the 105 someday. Great little tractors that usually put out closer to 120hp than the rated 105. You don't split a 105, you pull the engine and over/under assembly out of the front frame tub. But, first thing is to pull the long pto shaft out the back lol! The 354 perkins is not an engine for a first timer to rebuild if it needs new sleeves. They are dry sleeves that are in the block tight! We have done a re-ring job on a few customer's tractors over the years, with ok success. The problem seems to be the age causes the rings to lose some tension, therefore lose their sealing ability. This of course is if the pistons themselves are in great condition too. 
Oh, a 7040 is a pretty great tractor too. PD I'd guess? Lots of places for oil leaks though. Not much different than the white though lol!


Edited by injpumpEd - 07 Nov 2019 at 8:25am
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimNearFortWorth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 8:39am
Urge you to consider putting the money into the White over the winter.
You know and like the tractor and if access to a reputable shop, you will have something you already know works vs. maybe having something else you bring home turn into a money pit, just when you need it most . . . . .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 8:59am
@Ed

The 7040 has the 20 speed on it.

As for the White, do you have a rough idea of the parts and labor on giving her “the works”? Out here, there’s one guy who’s a master at everything pretty much. I need to talk with him, but I’m sure you have more of an idea on cost than I do (Heck, I thought you’d need to split the tractor to do it, so I’m way off already)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 9:31am
I'd bet you'd drop 5-7000. But how I would do it, is probably different than some. I'd do the clutch of course, and also I'd go through the over/under while it's out of the tractor. I'm picky about rebuiding components while they are off. What better time? To do the engine top notch would require sleeve/piston kits, valves/guides, and at least injectors, if not pump and turbo as well. See, it can be overwhelming. But, a bad injector could be what has ruined the engine, can ruin the overhaul. Good thing you have a good local guy. That is something that will be good as gold. Oh, on the white, while engine is out and cab is tipped up, pull top tank out and check the steering hoses. Very likely the main hose is leaking, great time to replace it, and the lower section too. Been over 25 years since I worked in a White dealer, but still remember the weak spots lol!
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote exSW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 9:36am
6-354 Perkins is a world wide engine. Parts should be out there.Also Ed mentioned it but I will again. PULL PTO FIRST !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GregStremel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 12:37pm
I have and use a 7040. We rebuilt the engine soon after we bought it about 25 years ago.

At first it was our main tillage tractor. It has been replaced by a couple of 7060s and an 8070.

I now use it to pull fertilizer buggies, cut hay, Ted hay, rake hay, run the round baler, and a 20 brush hog. In short, it is a versatile tractor. I felt it was ridiculous to use a 135 hp tractor to Ted hay, so I used our D19. Until, it was100+ degrees. Then it was silly to use an open station tractor when a tractor with a/c was right there.

I am 6’2” 230 lbs. the cab is smaller than the 8000 series cabs. But I have enough room. I have been known to work with a German Shepherd and a fat Black Lab in the cab all day. Crowded but doable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 6:46pm
Cab amenities have never bothered me- when the snow is flying, I remember the days in our Deere 4520 with no doors or back window. I'll be more than happy with any company-made cab LOL I worry about reliability and weak points, not creature comforts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 7:58pm
One thing that the ad doesn't mention is that the 7040 does have the inter-changeable PTO, so you would have both 540 and 1000 PTO. As far as the tractor being too big, that shouldn't be a problem because the baler should have shear bolt protection. And the size will keep the back and forth motion in check. I guess, all things considered, I think it would work for you. If I were you, I definitely would go look at it and test drive it before you bid on it. Darrel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2019 at 9:32pm
I plan to look at it- we've toyed with the idea of two tractors for years if nothing else. Sounds like these are pretty solid, reliable machines at least
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 12:28am
You know there are thousands of older MF combines out there not being used as something other then the engine wore  out.  Lots of them have the 6-354.  Sounds like you need to talk to the great mechinic you have nearby to see if he has worked on Perkins engines.  Pretty likely he has.  If it' s just the oil cooler you might get lucky, BUT, having antifreeze in the oil is not good for bearings, etc.
How did your crops do this year?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael V (NM) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 7:37am
I looked at the pictures, when ya go look at it, check and see why the RH inside rear tire is set at a different width, they might have had a reason,, or could be loose wedges on the axle...
After you go look, decide on your bid, and stick to it, don't let their "outbid" emails change your mind...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 7:41am
Originally posted by darrel in ND darrel in ND wrote:

One thing that the ad doesn't mention is that the 7040 does have the inter-changeable PTO, so you would have both 540 and 1000 PTO. As far as the tractor being too big, that shouldn't be a problem because the baler should have shear bolt protection. And the size will keep the back and forth motion in check. I guess, all things considered, I think it would work for you. If I were you, I definitely would go look at it and test drive it before you bid on it. Darrel
I'm not positive, but pretty sure all 7040's would have dual speed pto. Seems the only one that is not is a 7080 and 8070. At 135hp, the 7040 has to be one of the most reliable tractors of the era. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 8:07am
Our crops did alright. Beets and beans out here had a terrible year, but we only grow grains, so we lucked out this year. Everybody else out here is having the worst year I can remember though. Hopefully that’ll mean nobody has money to buy a tractor so it’ll go cheaper

As for the tire spacing, I couldn’t see into the rim well enough to see how they work. Our neighbor had a run on a Deere 4320 loosen up where it came off the wedges and needs to be welded. Do these tractors use the same type of setup, or are the axle wedges you mention something different?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael V (NM) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 8:35am
The wedges are similar,I think you can look on the inside of the wheel,maybe you can see from there, I just thought it was strange to have the rear wheels at different spacing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 9:30am
after looking at the pics on the provided link above, I see it does indeed have 2 speed pto, with the 540 set up currently. It does almost look like the wedges for the innder right rear are loose, wish could zoom the one pic of the back that shows the right axle inside. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GM Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 10:59am
7040 maroon belly gear drive (power director) is probably what will come up in the dictionary for "low operating cost" Everything is rather rugged, and affordable.

We have a 2-105 in Idaho with a munched transmission (previous owner didnt know about the 6 spd and rear end having their own separate oil) if you want to make 1 out of 2. but like said above, oil in water is hopefully oil cooler, and Whites are the most "farm friendly" tractor to work on the clutch, since no splitting stands are needed.

Though I would highly suggest having 2 tractors. within reason, its never a bad idea to have extras. I say within reason, because after too many it gets to be a black hole for $. Usually that issue only arises at double digit quantity though. :)

Definitely go inspect that 7040, without an inspection stop bidding at 1500. make sure and drive it and make some sharp turns and listen for noise, quite a few threads on this very forum of guys repairing differential carnage on 7040/8030 tractors with the big engine and 2 pinion differential.
The rest of the inboard planetary rear is basically bulletproof. Allis approved full 3pt loads on 120 centers on single tires, no one else would. make sure both brakes work, we have a 7040 with one dead brake, I am going to leave that Pandoras box alone... lol

Cab is cozy, make sure door is not broken. if it is, find someone good at welding thin metal (not me. :) ) and get it straight and weld it back together. lube the catch ball, or get the door shock kit.  rusty catch ball is why the doors get broke up in the first place.

the joy of a a 7040 is that version of the 426 will out start basically all other 7000 series tractors, and the small cab warms up quick. we have a 3pt forklift on our 7040, and plugged in it will go at any reasonable temperature to unload trucks. Both assets in Wyoming. :)

I am sure you know already, but make sure and run thinner engine oil or a oil pan heater. neighbor bought a 7080 that came from WY (we sold it to a guy in CO years ago, his estate sold on Big Iron, it went to WY, guy ruined engine and dumped it back on big iron, where our neighbor bought it) near as we could tell, cold thick oil didnt flow and starved it of oil and piled up the bearings.

For baler use, IMO I would leave the 540/1000 PTO in the 1000 position, use a hand tach to figure out what engine RPM gives you 540 RPM, and use an adapter. That might result in too much torque and inconsistent RPMs, so you might end up running it on true 540, but the engine will be revved up and fuel consumption will increase. I do the adapter on 1000 RPM setting on our 7040 when I pull the 5 ton dry spreader with 540 PTO.

One thing to check when you inspect it, remove the PTO stub and look for sheared off bolts. (take a 5/8 socket and a long extension, Caterpillar 7/16 bolts will have an 11/16 head, but those only work on one side of the PTO, so doubt it will have those, but take an 11/16 just in case) The concept is relatively foolproof, but some folks either let it run with loose bolts, or tried ramming bolts in where they are not supposed to go. I have a 7030 that one side of the PTO is un-usable due to this. When you do use it, make sure and torque bolts with engine idling, PTO will freewheel with engine off and you cant get good torque.

Otherwise, take a wrench to crack drain plugs, look for antifreeze in oil on engine, and gunk and water in the transmission and rear end. trans and rear are seperate, rear end oil level is via two sight glasses on LH side, fill by 3pt, and trans is dipstick under seat. 3 drain plugs on rear end, 2 on transmission. plastic sealing washers love to split, so be careful, and if you buy it, get new sealing washers for when you go to change oil.

So overall I think it would be a good addition to the fleet if it goes for a decent price. Like you said, the $ saved on trucking would add to the value. 130 miles is a little ways to drive it, but if she checks out, should be able to make it fine.

Good luck!
Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine.

If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michael V (NM) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 12:58pm
GM guy covered a lot of things to look at, even a lot I haven't thought of,,

I prolly went too much on the 7060 I bought on an online auction,but it has turned out to be a decent tractor,I had to some work on it,but that's prolly the way with anything bought at an auction..

Another thing you might do,is, search past auctions for 7040's, this will give you an idea of how much they have been selling for, don't limit search to Big Iron only, do auctiontime and purple wave also....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 7:37pm
@GM

Thank you so much for the advice! That's the type of stuff I needed- the good, bad, and ugly on these things. I now know what to look for when we check it out.

We don't plan on driving it 130 miles, though you could. Wyoming has a CDL exemption for ag stuff, so we could use one of the neighbor's Kenworths to haul it back. I need to just get my CDL one of these years, but that's low on my list of worries.

Hopefully our White isn't in a real bad way, but turning two into one may be a better idea anyways. Ehhh, who am I kidding? I'd probably just end up with two Whites and an Allis. I see what you mean about that whole "black hole" thing you mentioned LOL

Seriously, it's nice to know that it's out there. Terry is pretty busy this year since the beet farmers lost a lot of money this year (Neighbor only got 300 out of 975 acres dug- rest are a total loss), so a lot of people are forced to use the "Can I get just one more year out of her?" approach. I doubt a White with a failed transmission is your top priority now anyways Wink

Out of curiosity, how bad is it to replace the transmission on a White? It sounds like the engine and clutch are pretty easy for a mechanic to do
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2019 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by injpumpEd injpumpEd wrote:

Originally posted by darrel in ND darrel in ND wrote:

One thing that the ad doesn't mention is that the 7040 does have the inter-changeable PTO, so you would have both 540 and 1000 PTO. As far as the tractor being too big, that shouldn't be a problem because the baler should have shear bolt protection. And the size will keep the back and forth motion in check. I guess, all things considered, I think it would work for you. If I were you, I definitely would go look at it and test drive it before you bid on it. Darrel

I'm not positive, but pretty sure all 7040's would have dual speed pto. Seems the only one that is not is a 7080 and 8070. At 135hp, the 7040 has to be one of the most reliable tractors of the era. 


Yes, I am sure that you are correct. Darrel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2019 at 12:27pm
Alright- the auction ended today, and for the price of $4200, we now own that 7040. Is that a good price- it seems insanely cheap to me, but it's hard to tell out here where tractors are harder to find

So, before spring, what are the common things on these tractors to need working on?  From what I've read they seem pretty bulletproof, but any machine has it's points that need a little extra care
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2019 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by darrel in ND darrel in ND wrote:

Originally posted by injpumpEd injpumpEd wrote:

Originally posted by darrel in ND darrel in ND wrote:

One thing that the ad doesn't mention is that the 7040 does have the inter-changeable PTO, so you would have both 540 and 1000 PTO. As far as the tractor being too big, that shouldn't be a problem because the baler should have shear bolt protection. And the size will keep the back and forth motion in check. I guess, all things considered, I think it would work for you. If I were you, I definitely would go look at it and test drive it before you bid on it. Darrel

I'm not positive, but pretty sure all 7040's would have dual speed pto. Seems the only one that is not is a 7080 and 8070. At 135hp, the 7040 has to be one of the most reliable tractors of the era. 


Yes, I am sure that you are correct. Darrel
At first the 7050 was available with 1000 rpm only.
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2019 at 4:46pm
matador,
 Congratulations on the 7040! Now we need pictures please! Sounds like a lot of tractor for the money too!
Should make a nice addition to the farm operation.
What would an new tractor of similar size and Hp cost today??
Regards,
 Chris

D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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matador View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 Nov 2014
Location: Wyoming
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2019 at 5:53pm
Pictures will come as soon as we can get it. Tomorrow, I'll spend probably half the day getting the neighbor's Kenworth and Lowboy out of the snowbank it's parked in. No clue when I can pick it up, but I like to pick up auction winnings as quickly as I can. I'd rather have something sitting in my yard than someone else's.

For the straw operation, it's total overkill. But, I won't complain- getting working A/C is going to be nice.

As for your modern tractor question, it's hard to tell since HP ratings have changed some. But, sticking with AGCO, it looks like a Massey 7718 is pretty close to the size. The only new one I could find on TractorHouse is a 2017 model with 15 hours on it. The asking price is $115,085. You could have that, or just over 27 of this Allis 7040 for that price. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Anybody have any ideas on the stuff to look over this winter with a fine tooth comb, and also, this will sound like a stupid question, but how the heck do you drive the 20 speed on that thing?
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Location: Mo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2019 at 5:57pm
Good buy and nice tractor ! My personal opinion I hate those long bar short bar tires, got them on a 6080 and always spinning on green grass,
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