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Brake Bands:

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Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Utopia
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Brake Bands:
    Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 8:06am
How does one evaluate stopping brake bands without removal? I don't see a procedure other than when the steering clutch drums are removed. The manual states to replace when the material has thinned to the depth of the lines manufactured into the linings but really nothing more. I'm wondering if the access panel, (floor) can be removed and if a guy could actually see the lining materials without removal?





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Coke-in-MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 10:00am
What machine ? as everyone is somewhat different , also the contact point differs as band rides on drum . 
 On HD5 machines the band is 2 piece - in diagrams 1 piece 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 11:08am
Sorry about that. It is an 11B tractor with power shift.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 11:38am
I have never seen a crawler brake band you could see the ware without removing it.  Hopefully the engineers got it right and you run out of adjustment before you get rivet heads cutting groves in you brake band.On some you can see a bit of the drum from the opening you adjust brakes from and you can see if rivet heads are leaving a mark. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 4:20pm
Thanks Ray. The manual states these are fully bonded linings and there is a pair of grooves machined into the friction material. When the grooves shallow from wear, the linings need replaced. The steering clutches and brakes appear to be somewhat of a minor task in this tractor requiring only a couple of hours per side with no finals impact, and no seal work. Both driving, and driven sections bolt together with the clutch packs in the middle. I've only been into IH wet steering clutches in the past and that is many moons ago.

I have some centrifugal clutch shoes going off to be relined this next week and will include these brake bands if needing work. I'd certainly hate to pull it apart solely to see if this area needs addressing, but would really be kicking myself if lax judgement caused failure by being lazy.

Following is a bit of the procedure.

Steering clutch and brake:



Someplace I seen the original lining thickness, but can't locate it now. Surely seems about .1875". The gent I'm going to use for the work has the specs on the tractor so no matter.

In the brake adjusting procedure they have you turn the adjuster to 80ft#, then back it off two full turns falling into the closest recess on the adjuster.








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 7:29pm
The bonded lining sounds good. No rivets to cut a grove in brake drum.  Picture helps me see, no way to check brake other than pulling it. The brakes should work fine until it is steel on steel. I think I see grove in the picture but don't have a clue to look at it. Maybe the guy that operated this when new could tell you.

All the Cats and IH's, I have been in are 2 and 3 piece brake bands bolted together.  The D6's I run have gap at the top the way the linkage works and you can see 2 or 3 inches of the drum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 7:38pm
During my nightly surf of ebay I ran across this listing, but they seem to be very expensive:


If that truly is the case with accuracy I'll be very happy I have parts machine accessibility.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 7:46pm
Take part off of parts machine.  If it looks serviceable, keep it handy.  If not, search your area for a brake lining remanufacturer.  They should be able to re-line it for a lot less than $1300...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 8:12pm
Since I saw you looking at Rick's classified add on brakes. The first picture is the style of brakes I deal with. The bolt together is the exact thing. The top of the band doesn't close and overlap like the picture here of yours. So that is where you can see contact of lining to drum.

I have never priced a bonded lining repair, but I sure would shop before I payed that. I want to say the last set of Cat lining was $100 to $150 including the rivets. But I need a new way to set the rivets. Was using a friends old 1930's cast iron machine with a foot pedal you pushed down that crimped the rivet. Was not bolted down so the 2003 earthquake tipped and broke it. So as time fly's put the last band I had riveted in the tractor in the 10 to 14 time frame and bought more lining for next time. But I keep slowing down more so tractor runs less too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2022 at 8:26pm
Yes, I was speaking with Rick about brakes and want to support him for supporting the site. However he cannot do bonded linings. There is a place local that does relining and can do bonded linings in another of their locations. I've not asked about this set yet, only had them do truck brake shoes in years past. They've done very well in the past on my antique Mack trucks brake shoes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemdozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2022 at 7:50am
You need to removed the brake drum assambly  for changing the brake linning
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 12:23am
They are wet double wrap brakes; and hardly ever wear out. 
When the adjuster nut goes tight means you have run out of adjustment.
Then you have to remove steering clutchs to replace brake bands. AC didn,t have replacement linings listed, you had to buy a whole new band.
Or find someone who can bond wet lining material to the old bands
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 6:30am
Thanks Merv, are you saying I would run out of adjustment prior to the bands cutting into the drums as Ray suggested?


Edited by Codger - 02 Feb 2022 at 6:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HD6 Merv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 9:40am
yes
tits tyres and tracks

they all cost you money
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 10:01am
Wonderful, and thank you. I have talked to the former owner and he tells me the steering clutches were "checked", and brakes adjusted by the servicing agency, (dealer) annually during service routines. I couldn't figure out how to "check" the steering clutches from the manuals other than functionally.

All I know is the brake pedals are very even in amount of travel before the brakes grab. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AC Mel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 10:35am
Ok...I feel compelled to speak....Merv's right they don't wear out very often. We've been running these tractors for 40 years...had to change one once that had a weld break on the band..which caused the linkage to not work properly. The lining was still ok.  Changed one once...and a steering clutch...and replaced the Teflon o rings..in one side looking for a problem in why we seem to have a delay in the release of the steering clutch when we pull the lever.  Checked oil pressures and linkage measurements also (have not solved that problem yet...but in the last couple of years have learned of another place to look...planning on getting to that some day)  Would be very...very..surprised if you need to change your brake bands.  You should have no problem finding good used ones.  It's probably one of the few things from dismantled 11B's that never get sold.  So I'm sure Hector can find some for you. If he doesn't have access we have some.  There the same as a direct drive 11B ag tractor. We've dismantled several for parts.  Engines and undercarriage parts are what we watch for.   If you have access to a parts machine.....I would certainly get it secured and stored.      
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2022 at 11:37am
Thanks for jumping in Mel. Wish I had experience but don't have a lot and this is my first owned tractor. Knowing parts are going to be difficult to access easily leads me down the path of asking questions and reading manuals much more than my normal.

I agree with the steering clutches and brakes having longevity as/and they are not presenting problems at this time. However I do want to be as versed as can be once the tractor becomes operational again. Always one to actually do the maintenance, I don't really like to stop to read a book in the middle of something unless a crucial measurement, or setting, as example. I'm attempting to question normal wear items only as we can't predict catastrophic, or sudden failure, (usually).

I do have access to two parts chassis and although they are in the weather, they aren't going anyplace. One still has a blown engine and p/s transmission, the other a direct drive with no engine and a usable undercarriage. The chassis with the blown engine had a ripper. Both the ripper and valve body sections are gone from the chassis. Should either of these need moved I'd run a retrieval mission, but I'm assured they are safe. 

I continue to learn with each response to my questions; thank you.

I certainly don't want to be annoying, but do enjoy learning something I do not have experience with, or on.

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