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darrel in ND 
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 Topic: blower question on 516 buda/allis engine
Posted: 25 Sep 2011 at 10:00am |
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On my recently aquired forty-five road grader, the blower is froze up, and I was wondering how difficult it is to rebuild it. Now it is not a turbo, it is a belt driven blower. Don't know if it is a matter of just pulling it apart and putting in new bearings, or if there are some high tech specs that need to be followed closely, and a rebuild should be left up to only those who know what they are doing. I did find a company in Missouri that specializes in these old engines, and I was going to send it to them, but I think the freight would be quite spendy, as it is a pretty heavy blower. Any thoughts or advice on it? Thanks, Darrel
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gemdozer
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Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 11:33am |
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If sometime I can help am still have a complet blower #4349251
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 26 Sep 2011 at 6:10pm |
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gemdozer, where are you located, and how much for the blower? Thanks, Darrel
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gemdozer
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Posted: 27 Sep 2011 at 5:03am |
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You could open your blower and make he is not just stuck and yes this blower is very heavy and I could dismantled mine for parts
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 27 Sep 2011 at 8:55pm |
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Gemdozer, for now I will see what I can get done with mine, and I'll get back to you if I need something, as you are quite a ways away from me as well. Thanks anyway, Darrel
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 03 Oct 2011 at 6:14am |
Darrel,
We're in the process of getting a Forty Five going. I've found manuals including a service manual that covers this blower. Details are listed at
as that was about the only post on these beasts that I'd found and there doesn't seem to be a lot on the ADS 516 around when we were looking for parts.
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 03 Oct 2011 at 6:28am |
Gemdozer
The blower assembly part number in my genuine Allis parts book is 4349329, which includes 8 studs, 8 lock washers and 8 nuts.
No number for a bare blower.
Parts book is Form TPL 272 B, overwritten with 70626041.
The Jensales one is AC-P-45 M GDR ,dated August 1959. Seems to be the same.
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 03 Oct 2011 at 9:43am |
Ian, are you doing a complete restoration, or just getting it useable? I think that I am going to end up shipping my blower to a company in missouri to get rebuilt. They seem very knowledgeable on the old buda engines. Where are you located? Darrel
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 03 Oct 2011 at 4:32pm |
Darrel,
I'm in Queensland, Australia.
We're doing a "get running" for general ranch work, including fence line grading (since a kangaroo put one son's motorbike into a fence and near cut his throat on a barb wire). This son is a Cat diesel apprentice, so we have professional advice.
This one has been "improved" - now has hydraulic wheel lean and blade roll.
The original engine had dropped a rod bearing and been left open. We tripped over a rebuilt short motor, and a pair of heads that seem good, so that part will be pretty well restored. Our blower seems OK - not making oil and the gear clearance seems reasonable. It sure sucks on hand power anyway. The comment from our Allis source was that these blowers might look like GM but were made by Allis and parts are almost non-existent - they had a part rebuilt one that they couldn't complete as they couldn't locate a new gear set.
If we have trouble, an option would be to run it without blower as we have the intake etc from a HD 11 - might smoke a bit. But it might be possible to play tunes here - graders have a 10mm injector pump plunger and run at 1600 rpm at 28 degrees. HD 11's had 9 or 10mm plungers, ran at 1800 rpm with timing 28 or 32 degrees. More research.
I've grafted a Bosch alternator on, as the generator was gone and the water pump was driven by "emergrncy belting".
Our engine is done up to injectors, then rebuild clutch plates and replace in frame.
Next known problem is the worm in the circle drive box. That will be find a second hand box or a reconstruct.
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gemdozer
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Posted: 03 Oct 2011 at 4:55pm |
My blower too has 8 studs,washers and nuts and I remove the side cover were is the drive pulley andthe the bander pulley and the drive pulley ben sold and the intake manifold from the motor #is 4349433 and the blower # then I give you was on the tag and should blower ass.
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 04 Oct 2011 at 2:52am |
Gemdozer,
OK, got your part. There were two intake manifolds, change was engine # 98863.
This 9**** engine number appears in other places, mixed with 45-**** type numbers.
This is a complete guess - did Buda have this engine going before Allis bought in, and, if so, what else was it used in?
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gemdozer
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Posted: 04 Oct 2011 at 4:04am |
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This blower was instaled on grader ALLIS CHALMERS with motor 10000 BUDA ALLIS but dont remember if it was 45 or m100
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 04 Oct 2011 at 6:04am |
Gemdozer,
Cards on table - I'm new to the Allis field, but no stranger to working with parts books and service manuals - and to asking. And I'm feeding what I find in as "Archives" as one of the better comments I've got on this job was "The people you need have left or died".
I've got no info on M100's, but I'd guess they would have had 10000's (vertical injectors, direct injection) or 11000's (turbo'd 10000's).
The ADS-516 blower engine (in the "Forty Five") has horizontal injectors and Lanova "Energy Cells" on the opposite side of the piston.
If it was on a 10000 series then, according to the "forty five" and "45" parts books I have that looks like a "post-Allis" job.
But probably do-able. Later 10 series HD 11's drove the fan from the same place as the ADS blower pulley, which likely would have fitted. But they wouldn't have had the big front camshaft bearing and maybe not the oil feed to the blower drive bearing. Both of which I presume were done for a reason.
Exhaust manifold are the same part number, so an ADS 516 intake manifold should also bolt on - I guess with a blower on a 10000 you'd sort of make an 11000?
Incidently the HD 11 parts book I have on loan has a identification table of "Model Symbol", "Engine Model (with tractor number)", "Description" which goes from HD 11B to HD 11FC which I could scan if it would be useful.
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gemdozer
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Posted: 04 Oct 2011 at 4:39pm |
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My motor had ENERGY CELL head and am still have these head and the fuel pump ben sold
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 4:01am |
Darrel,
I just found a plate under the paint on our supercharger. It was made by Schwitzer. Not sure what this might mean in parts supply.
Any ideas?
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 7:00am |
I would guess that would be the same company that is very big into manufacturing turbo chargers. I know that they are still in business, so that is a good sign. I may have to hop on their web site and see what I can find, thanks. Darrel
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 5:01am |
Darrel,
I had a look. Now part of Borg Warner and I didn't get very far.
They seem to have an interesting starting date for Allis if I read that part correctly.
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 5:08am |
Gemdozer
If those heads are good someone might like them. Our Allis man said these heads gave a lot more trouble than the vertical injector ones on the 10000 series. They never got a good pair to finish the short motor we got, and that was a major Allis place.
Heads I've seen have been good, cracked between intake and exhaust valve (presumably repairable?), and "repaired". The last have a lot of erosion on the flat bits and the repair area is also pretty rough.
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 5:12am |
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The latest find with ours is that the small worm gear in the circle drive box is stuffed. So find a wreck or look at rebuilding. These projects sure keep you off the street.
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gemdozer
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Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 12:06pm |
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I check fast this morning the heads and they look in good condition and the # on is 4336489
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Mactractor
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Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 1:50pm |
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Ian, I think you will find those Budas are from before Allis bought the company. I have read about the LaPlante Choate TS160 motor scraper which had that engine before Allis bought either of those companys. Mac
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 08 Oct 2011 at 5:33am |
Mac,
I'm not suprised. Supercharging seemed to be a thing of the era. Just been to the Transport Museum at Alice Springs (recommended if you get the chance) and noticed that superchargers feature on the RR's in the Vesty road trains (Rotianoff) and on a Cummins of around that era.
Also saw a mention of supercharged 844 Buda's in trucks in a early Kenworth forum. Apparently these were in very early HD 21's.
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 09 Jan 2012 at 7:26pm |
Update. We're going!
Our 45 moved under its own power on New Year's Eve. Circle gearbox is rebuilt and control drive lines tarted up. Still some work to chase out wear in the eye of the steering arm. And then tyres.
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Mactractor
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Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 1:01am |
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Good goin Ian. Another one saved from extinction!
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Ian Beale
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Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 3:38am |
Mactractor,
Yes, for the moment anyway. And the bloke who was driving it when it blew came by and had a look and a listen. And then commented "It'll see you out" - one tribute I can take, not sure I needed the other!
Re extinction - I haven't found a dead one to raid yet - or many live either. I know of one earlier in the area still mobile. And a grader workshop operator said he'd just done a school with a 45 that hadn't run for 15 years.
No-one has called me a bloody fool on this project, most comments being of the sort "If you get it going, they were a good old grader".
Now I have to learn to drive it. More when I know more.
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