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Heliarc 
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Joined: 23 Jun 2019
Location: Shickshinny PA
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 Topic: B-112 Vari Drive, this can't be right
Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 4:48pm |
This is how I got the tractor. I bought a new belt for it and went through the procedure a few times on the adjustment. Can't get it right. In 3-H it slips bad even on flat ground. Lower gears/ranges are mostly OK. The other day I found this and shot a short video. The nut holding the front pulley goes right up against the woodruff key and the key slot is hammered. I'll do a proper teardown and show what I have, but meantime, any guesses?
Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXOjlXnBXHU
Edited by Heliarc - 18 Sep 2019 at 4:51pm
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Gary
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Location: Peterborough,On
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Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 7:22pm |
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 5:58am |
Video is dang shot but... maybe the wrong size Woodruff key. They have to be 'snug' in the groove, ie NO slop.Usually need a small hammer and screwdriver to 'pop' them out.
While I have a B-112 ,it's BURIED behind a LOT of stuff, someone else's stuff, sigh.... Otherwise I'd go look but need to make a 3.5" socket
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Heliarc
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Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 8:10am |
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I'm not much on a camera...The keyway is destroyed but I can build it back up. What I'm mainly concerned with, is that nut supposed to run right up against the key like that? I think there's something missing. I'll get a better vid today.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 8:18am |
I'll try to look BUT my gut says there should be a flat washer bewteen the nut and the pulley. Every small engine crankshaft flywheel has nut, washer, then then flywheel.. I have a svc man on theis PC 'somewhere'.... Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Heliarc
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Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 1:46pm |
https://www.partstree.com/models/b-112-2029930-allis-chalmers-garden-tractor-12hp/variable-speed-pulley-17/Stop Washer, "AN" on the diagram, is gone. I bored out a washer as sort
of a place holder and installed that between the two slide bushings. I still don't know 100% that it's stacked up right
and I think the three egged out holes in the outer sheave are messing
with me. I'm pretty sure that my problem lies with a combination of that
keyway being near destroyed and the pulley, and possibly other missing
parts. Might be e-bay in the future here. [TUBE]6ln5ZM7Q334[/TUBE] The dang thing is really beating me up. At this point I
have the belt grabbing proper but I can't change gears and the front
pulley still isn't right. Also the adjustment is way out of wack now. I think I'm on the right track but my method is wrong. I have the manual for the adjustment procedure.
Edited by Heliarc - 19 Sep 2019 at 1:52pm
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 5:51pm |
man there's a LOT of friggin parts ! The 3 ovaled holes are interesting as I can't figure out HOW that happens unless it was jammed fwd-rev-fwd-rev a kazillion times ?? Without that washer(spacer) I can see there would be 'slop' so the inner side of the pulley('G') could move to far to left side(super slow).
Mine's collecting dust(BURIED waaaay back,sigh) though last year I got it out and all was well. I sure hope someone can help you before you lose ALL your hair over it ! Be sure to take pictures WHILE you're tearing it down, and refer to the official drawings for the correct rebuild sequence. All I got done in 10 hours was make a 3.5" socket..
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Heliarc
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Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 6:33pm |
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All I can figure is that it was assembled incorrectly and then run that way for a LONG time. The keyways in the pulley and shaft are destroyed as well. The brake locks up HARD as soon as you have the pedal down past the point where it de-clutches. I think that may have something to do with it as well. I don't know though. Needs addressed for sure anyhow, annoying as heck. I bored out a washer on the lathe and installed it between the slide spacers "AM and "AP" but the thing still doesn't make a lot of sense. I believe I have it correctly assembled going by the schematic. I've got another vid ready to upload showing what I have and what I did. The visual cues on the adjustments have changed before and after so maybe I'm getting there. I'll have to mull over how to recondition that outer pulley. There are errors all over the system and none of them are helping.
Edited by Heliarc - 19 Sep 2019 at 6:36pm
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 7:51pm |
sigh, it sounds like you should totally tear down and reassemble stuff. Hopefully you can visually check things, otherwise you'll need a totally cleaned out 2 car garage to lay stuff out... I hae no idea if 'special' parts are available, bushings and bearings are easy though. Having a lathe( and time) will surely help !
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Heliarc
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Posted: 20 Sep 2019 at 6:35am |
Yea it's a job alright. I've already had it stripped bare from the
grill back to the BGB and removed all the grass, mouse nests and other
junk and rectified a lot of the neglect. Here's where I am now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfu5kEbzSYA&feature=youtu.be
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Heliarc
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Posted: 22 Sep 2019 at 1:07pm |
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I'm kind of dead in the water. I managed to recondition the keyway for the cross shaft and I cobbled up a keyway broach for the outer pulley sheave. I'll drill new holes in the body of the pulley sheave as well, no problem. What has me now is the lack of the shims F and G, and I'm not 100% on the purpose. I ***think they retain the cross shaft from going too far side to side. Also need to find an oil seal. I don't know how many shims to pack in there as well. For now I'll just keep working with the pulley. If I can lay hands on a seal, I can make up some shims if they're not a high precision thing.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 22 Sep 2019 at 4:55pm |
If... sigh...IF I can carve a path to my B-112, can I SEE those parts ? If so I'll measure them for you. Man I hope you have SOME hair left. it might take me a day though..... It'd be too easy if there was a real parts manual.....
patience
OK... I finally SAW a piece of my B112,but I'll have to move a LOT of junk to get to it, so I'b been staring at the diagram....wishin I still had my Meccano sets but... here's my idea.. The right side of the front pulley doesn't move, the left side of the rear pulley never moves so...the shims align those pulleys up so that the belt is always parallel to the pulleys and parallel to the frame. Say the front pulley is 2" from the frame edge and the blet is 1" wide... the rear pulley would be shimmed to make it 3" from the frame edge. Hopefully my writing makes sense, it looks good in my mind and on paper ,here at least.
Jay
Edited by jaybmiller - 22 Sep 2019 at 5:48pm
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Heliarc
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Posted: 22 Sep 2019 at 6:58pm |
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These previous owners really do a number, so far I have a full head of hair. Maybe a developing brain tumor or ulcers but I'll leave a decent looking corpse.
The shims are going to be behind the front vari-drive pulley and slide bushings. You'd have to remove the front pulley in order to see them and Please don't do that! Don't need you getting your setup out of wack. However, if I might impose. If you could shove in and out on that front vari drive pulley and maybe get a rough estimate on the end play? I'm thinking that's what the shims are for. If your cross shaft moves less than 1/8" side to side I'll be able to be reasonably sure it's the shims keeping it in place. Mine, you could watch it jumping left and right, possibly 1/2", as the tractor was running. I knew it couldn't be right but I had no idea what to do about it. If you can tell me at least roughly how much end play is on your cross shaft, I'll try and match that. It'll be a ton better than how it was before. Strange that the shims would be running right up against the oil seal however. Not sure if I'm reading it right but sure looks that way.
The broach tool I made for the keyway worked to a degree. It's sure not pretty but a damn sight better than what I had before. There's a keyway of sorts there now and I can tune it up with a file.
Edited by Heliarc - 22 Sep 2019 at 7:00pm
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 23 Sep 2019 at 5:46am |
My gut says maybe <1/8" play. I go back to the idea that the right front pulley and left rear pulley are 'fixed' so that the belt never moves left or right. If it did move lefty-righty, you'll get a LOT of bad wear and stress on stuff.
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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Heliarc
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Posted: 23 Sep 2019 at 9:43am |
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Yea, if both sheaves could free float I'd think it'd always be caterwompus or whatever, chewing the hell out of the sides of the belt and walking the belt off.
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Heliarc
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Posted: 23 Sep 2019 at 10:31am |
https://www.partstree.com/models/b-112-2029930-allis-chalmers-garden-tractor-12hp/bevel-gear-housing-3/Ok, holy smokes I could strangle whoever was into this tractor but I believe I'm on track now. I talked to some nice people at Sandy Lake Implements ((724) 376-2489 ask for Brenda Knauss) and they can get me what I need. I'm not sure what happened here, but to remove and install the seal and shims, you have to remove the side plate "AG". So, I install the seals, yes it's two of them now because they don't make the same thickness, and pack shims in until they contact the inner side of the side plate. The seals and shims are missing and there's no telltale remnants of either. So either I've got a black hole in my BGB swallowing parts or someone, somehow, neglected to put them in. I can't call Stephen Hawking so I'll go with some nitwit just never put them in. I think someone must have had trouble with the BGB in the past and swapped it out but had way too many PBR's while doing it. When I first got the tractor it would rock when you hit the brakes or let out the clutch. I found the BGB bolts were loose. I tightened them up, the rocking ceased, I thought no more of it. Now, I guess I know why they were loose. I guess this is why I ended up with the tractor so cheap as well. The previous owner was never able to get the vari-drive working right so he got frustrated and sold it. For now, I'll do what I can to get the outer sheave reconditioned, unbolt that side plate...sigh...and start measuring. Special place in hell for people that pull this type of nonsense.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 23 Sep 2019 at 5:05pm |
man at least you've go a GREAT sense of humor !! Trying to fix bodged is bad enough, but without support as in pictures, diagrams and a SOURCE for 30-40 year old parts, it IS a nightmare......BTDT... I'm getting too old for 'should be easy' projects..... Heck I spent 4 dayze trying to get a set of duals back onto my water trailer.....and found a new use for 5/8 threaded rod.... sigh... I did finally see my B112 today, it's buried, literally, behind someone else stuff...as to WHY he didn't leave a foot, just 12 lousy inches, dbl sigh...... You've got me wanting to make the rototiller engagement parts but, alas there's way too much krap in front of it... oh well... keep posting, I enjoy your SUCESSES !!
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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