B Oil Filter Experiment

son, I have been an engineer twice as long as you and probably make twice the money you do....... That has nothing to do with the thread.

I guess part of being an engineer is taking systems that work and improve them. (At least that's what a friend of mine told me last year) And that sounds like what Tcmtech is doing. Looking at a system that works (The B, C, CA oiling system) and making it work better with better results. It doesn't need to be done, but it would help the pressure I guess, although it does sound to me like his solution would decrease the volume of oil that goes through the filter. 

Edited by CrestonM - 11 Sep 2016 at 8:56pm

The oil pressure gauge on the "bypass" filtering systems used on A-C engines, is basically reading the oil pressure being created at the filtering area. A dirty filter (cotton material) generally will read more oil pressure than a brand new cotton filter. A missing vertical tube will read lower oil pressure. A vertical tube pushed clear to the bottom of its bore can (sometimes) read very low oil pressure as well. Heavier viscosity of oil or lighter viscosity is another factor to consider. Now, this oil pressure reading was designed around the fact that the cotton string filter was to receive a certain volume of oil per minute to create this 10-12 psi number. So, the volume is determined by the condition of the oil pump, suction screen cleanliness, main bearing clearances, cam bearing clearances, oil viscosity, etc, etc. Anything that affects the volume being delivered to the filter (higher or lower) immediately shows on the gauge. Very low numbers at the bypass filter aren't necessarily the end of the world, as the internal components are still getting oil and at a pressure number that is probably acceptable. I can remember plowing on many a hot spring day with a pretty well worn WD-45 and the oil pressure needle was barely at "N" when hot and the engine ran like that for years. In short, when EVERYTHING inside the engine (including the oil pump) is NEW and tight, that is the best your oil pressure will ever be. From that day forward, as normal wear and tear starts deteriorating components, the oil pressure slowly begins to fall. THERE IS A REASON THE ENGINEERS NEVER HAD "NUMBERS" ON THOSE OIL PRESSURE GAUGES !!!!

I agree with most everything you said Dr ..... normal main and rod bearing wear will effect MOST engines... This particular B-C motor is spray lubed by pumping oil down the hollow cam shaft and spraying oil thru several holes in the shaft toward the piston, bearings and rod ends ...I cant  say for sure, but most pressure loss in these motors is probably due to worn pump, plugged screen, sticking relief, bad cork plugs in the rocker arm shaft above the head, or improper installation of the 1/4 inch filter rod AS YOU SAID.... MOST other engines also loose pressure due to worn bearings.

LOL now that is funny.

have you ever heard the saying " when you find yourself in a hole, put down the shovel"..

DrAllis wrote: Main brgs are pressure lubed as are the cam bearings. Rod bearings are sprayed by holes in the hollow cam shaft.

Supposedly, as I was told in ag mechanics school, the cotton media filters more finely than most any pleated filter in that day.

It's pretty obvious you still don't understand the lube system on the CE engine. There never was a problem with low oil pressure with these few bad filters. The problem was no pressure,  which happens if you don't restrict the flow. Since the is no "orifice" to restrict the flow, the cotton packed filter did that. There is no problem getting the proper filter for this system. Wix screwed up once many years ago but corrected that very soon after.

"I started trying to explain that but it got shot apart pretty quickly because 'even a moron knows that the more restrictive the filter the better it's filtering'. which in their world apparently leaves no room for modern low micron count filters that use large pleated cloth surface area designs over small surface area larger micron count packed cotton types.

Personally this was my favorite response I got and I had to read it several times to get past the conflicting context.

"He just doesn't understand plain English Steve. Pressure increase in this system will NOT help with lubing the engine,PERIOD. Opening a hole in the external oil line, like what happens when you put a pleated filter on a bypass system will eventually destroy the engine."

So increasing oil pressure won't help the engine, period. Yet lack of pressure is what causes damage. What? Does that mean the engine is screwed no matter what is done?"

I'm pretty wary of going after anyone until I am sure I know what I am dealing with.

In engineering and mechanical work it's rare that anyone who has the mindset that makes them good at that sort of work is going to shoot their mouth off over dumb irrelevant stuff that could easily make themself look like a fool or worse.

Looking at other comments on that post, I can see you like inventing problems that don't exist, like not being able to buy parts for these old engines. Anybody can buy almost any internal part for the Allis CE engine any day of the week.
 I was a tool maker, machinist, and machine tool repairman for most of my working career and have met a few "engineers" that couldn't see the problems they create even if you built it their way and showed em it didn't work.

Yes it has Lonn.
 I came here this morning wanting to make a simple point, and got side-tracked.
 The point is, there was nothing wrong with the Allis BE-CE lube system till and "engineer" that didn't understand it, designed a new filter.

Now I'm done.

As technology marched onward, more and more HP was derived from the same/similar cubic inch displacement. The next generation A-C engine(G-149/ D-14) from this small-block configuration, had oil pressure lubing of the connecting rod bearings, which the B-125 engine didn't have, but still retained the bypass filtering system. This was to keep a certain amount of reliability with the RPM and compression ratio increases. When the next G-149 engine was used in the D-15, RPM's and compression were increased again and now they went with full-flow oil filtering. So, each step of the way, changes were made to attain a certain level of service life and reliability. Engine technology has seen more and more improvements with better main/rod bearing materials, better/stronger crankshaft materials, turbocharging, intercooling, piston cooling, and on and on....In short, Engineers are given parameters to work within. Cost, performance and reliability would rank right up there as important criteria to meet. Bypass oil filtering was also used by Competitors to A-C, even utilizing the same exact cotton string filter. It was a good enough system for the times.

jaybmiller wrote: Yup, I have very,very , no , NO respect for them 'engineers'. Idiots..each and every one, they live in their computers NOT in the real World...they've never ,ever worked on anything they 'engineered'.

The real problem with engineers is the same problem with doctors...do you know what they call the guy who graduated last in his class at engineering school?...engineer

Some are great and design things that make life better.   Others are better at convincing others the what they have designed is better than it is.

re:
Be glad for engineers, or you'd be walking everywhere and farming with sticks instead of big powerful trucks and tractors.

Well life was simpler back then, bet many here would like it ! Lot less problems too !!

Jay