B clutchshaft / crankshaft options??

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   Removed engine from our B this AM. The clutch shaft is grinding into the rear of the crank, so hard it's eating up the thurst bearing. I slid the flywheel back onto the shaft after removing to check fit of pilot bearing, it's fine. I'll listen to any ideas. Otherwise It seems I have three options; machine the inside of rear end of crank, or take an angle grinder to the end of clutch shaft, or make a shim to fit between engine & torqe tube. I know this sounds rash but it's what I've come up with so far. I;m thinking 3/16 relief from any where would do the trick.  Any suggestions welcomed!!!!!!!1 Keith

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tractorboy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 03 Oct 2009 Location: southern Va Points: 466	Post Options Post Reply Quote tractorboy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: B clutchshaft / crankshaft options?? Posted: 13 Mar 2010 at 12:44pm
	Removed engine from our B this AM. The clutch shaft is grinding into the rear of the crank, so hard it's eating up the thurst bearing. I slid the flywheel back onto the shaft after removing to check fit of pilot bearing, it's fine. I'll listen to any ideas. Otherwise It seems I have three options; machine the inside of rear end of crank, or take an angle grinder to the end of clutch shaft, or make a shim to fit between engine & torqe tube. I know this sounds rash but it's what I've come up with so far. I;m thinking 3/16 relief from any where would do the trick. Any suggestions welcomed!!!!!!!1 Keith

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tractorboy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 03 Oct 2009 Location: southern Va Points: 466	Post Options Post Reply Quote tractorboy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Mar 2010 at 1:12pm
	Anyone heard of this??? Come on guys don't leave me hanging!!!!! Keith

GregLawlerMinn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lawler, Mn Points: 1226	Post Options Post Reply Quote GregLawlerMinn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Mar 2010 at 2:15pm
	Never heard of the problem you are describing. I think the thrust lip is integral with the front main bearings; at least the front thrust lip on a CE engine (the engine used in most Bs, Cs, and CAs) I rebuilt years ago had worn to the point that I had to weld & remachine the front of the crank to obtain the proper clearance between the crank and thust lip). Some things that may help diagnose the problem better: Is the crankshaft moving back and forth into the clutch shaft? If my memory is right there should be only .002-.004" back and forth movement of the crank shaft. When I get a chance later today; will check out my manual for clearances. Or is the clutch shaft moving forward into the crankshaft? If so, the drive shaft may have to come out and be inspected to determine why it is running into the crankshaft.

tractorboy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 03 Oct 2009 Location: southern Va Points: 466	Post Options Post Reply Quote tractorboy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Mar 2010 at 2:27pm
	With the engine bolted in place, the crank is jammed so tight into the clutch shaft it locked up the motor! I wish the crank could move back & forth!! Keith

GregLawlerMinn Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lawler, Mn Points: 1226	Post Options Post Reply Quote GregLawlerMinn Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Mar 2010 at 3:19pm
	When I went to find my IT manual, I remembered I lent it to a neighbor awhile back so can't provide the clearances; maybe someone else can jump in. How much movement of the crank do you have when the engine is not connected to the tranny/clutch? The crank should move back and forth a few thousanths of an inch. If it does this then either the crank is too far back, or the clutch/drive shaft is too far forward. Have you pulled the pan and inspected the crank and bearings? It may be that somewhere along the way, the front of your crank may have been welded and remachined to repair the wear condition that I experienced and they did not remachine the crank build correctly. It is also possible that someone may have shimmed the clearance (between the thrust lip and crank) to correct a too much clearance conddition between the crank and thrust lip as an inexpensive fix. If the crank is setting in the bearing journals correctly and the thrust lip clearance is good you may have to correct the binding condition at the driveshaft end. Have you checked for front to back movement of the driveshaft? I am not too familiar with the drive shaft (should be very little movement). Is it possible that someone may have installed a longer driveshaft or repaired it such that it is too long? However, if I was confident the engine crankshaft and bearings are correctly insstalled, I would be prone to correcting the condition by removing some metal off the end of the drive shaft as you are thinking of. Maybe someone else can jump in and provide some advice.

ChuckLuedtkeSEWI Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Jackson, WI Points: 1826	Post Options Post Reply Quote ChuckLuedtkeSEWI Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Mar 2010 at 3:25pm
	I'm just thinking out loud, but could that cotter pin that holds the driveshaft onto the shaft coming out of the transmission come out and the driveshaft is drifting forward? If that was the case though, it would be easy to check if you just pulled on the driveshaft and it worked it's way forward and off of the transmission main shaft.

wfmurray Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Bostic NC Points: 1225	Post Options Post Reply Quote wfmurray Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Mar 2010 at 3:27pm
	There is a coupling between drive shaft and trans .Could bee a problem with it.

Hartland Farm Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Tennessee Points: 86	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hartland Farm Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Mar 2010 at 4:32pm
	I would say that Chuck is thinking in the right direction. I had a B that the Cotter pin was missing and the shaft would run foward when the tractor was pulling and make a noise in the clutch area. I drilled out the hole in the input shaft of the transmission and put a grade 8 bolt with a self locking nut in place of the cotter pin. Stopped the noise and have never had a problem with the tractor since. Joe

dadsdozerhd5b Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 27 Sep 2009 Location: lansdale pa. Points: 531	Post Options Post Reply Quote dadsdozerhd5b Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Mar 2010 at 4:38pm
	sounds to me like trans or driveshaft trouble more than engine trouble. putting shims is just putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound. eventually whatever is wrong will surface. sounds like a clip or snapring of retainer in the trans must have failed. has this been a running tractor or has there been recent repairs?
	HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE.

Tom IA Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Donahue IA Points: 255	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tom IA Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Mar 2010 at 5:11pm
	I agree I would split the tractor at the transmision and touque tube that will expose the coupling

Dick L Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dick L Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Mar 2010 at 10:55am
	My guess is that your drive shaft is one that has the universal joint and it is froze in a cocked position and will not slide back in place. The newer drive shafts were made with a sleeve that could not cause this. If that is the cause you could switch to a used shaft from any B, C, or CA as they are all the same.