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Allis Chalmers WD45 Diesel project

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55allis View Drop Down
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Joined: 30 Jun 2020
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2021 at 9:10am
Should I put thread locker on the block side on the studs?
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2021 at 10:54pm
Studs are usually lightly torqued  but no locker. 25ft/lb would seem good on them. Chase threads first. I don't need to say blow the holes out do I?

Edited by SteveM C/IL - 20 Jan 2021 at 10:56pm
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55allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2021 at 10:58pm
Originally posted by SteveM C/IL SteveM C/IL wrote:

Studs are usually lightly torqued  but no locker. 25ft/lb would seem good on them

That doesn’t seem like a lot of ft/lbs for the head. I thought that the diesel 45’s are 100 ft/lbs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2021 at 6:55am
I believe he is referring to the studs themselves. Then add the head and torque nuts to spec
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2021 at 8:41am
Originally posted by 55allis 55allis wrote:

Should I put thread locker on the block side on the studs?

Read your words and then my reply....
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55allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2021 at 11:21am
Ok, now I got it, first, put studs in, Second, put studs to 25ft/lb, third, put the head on, fourth, torque head nuts to 100ft/lb. Is that right?
Sorry!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2021 at 10:47pm
You are catching on....
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55allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2021 at 1:27pm
I finally got my copper head gasket today and it is Beautiful!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2021 at 8:06pm
Hope you have some type of fire rings to go with that copper gasket.
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55allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2021 at 8:11pm
No, I had it made so it won’t need the fire rings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2021 at 8:41pm
A copper head gasket for a farm tractor?? Won't work. Will seep coolant. Just a matter of when.
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55allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2021 at 9:27pm
I will put copper gasket sealer on it.
I truly don’t think I will have too many more problems.
It has already killed two regular head gaskets. Also it is sort of set up as a puller with D17d pistons and a thinner head gasket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2021 at 9:37pm
Good luck. Report back with how it works.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2021 at 11:42am
I recently got a Felpro gasket set and it had the fire rings built in the gasket ; assume this will work ? 
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55allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2021 at 12:47pm
Yes it will.
Otherwise if you want a copper head gasket, you can email/call Copper Head Gasket Unlimited.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2021 at 12:59pm
Looks good !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2021 at 9:35pm
Head gasket don't blow because of gasket material , they blow because the fire ring (inside or outside of gasket ) don't crush enough on top of sleeve. Even a pulling tractor with a copper gasket uses a fire ring.             MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 9:28am
From the picture of the 2 it looks like the copper gasket is going to set on the liner.
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55allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 9:58am
Here is a picture of the regular gasket on top the copper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2021 at 1:24pm
What would be the recommended sleeve lash? So far the research I’ve done as lead me between 0.002-0.029 of a inch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac45dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2021 at 5:10pm
 sleeve lash?  What do you mean by sleeve lash?
54 wd-45gas ; 56 wd-45d N/F w/fact p/s ; 63 d-17 sIII N/F gas ; 60 D14 N/F ; 67 d-17 sIV N/F gas ; 63D15 sII W/F; 39rc#667 ; 2021 massey 4710 fwa ; gravely 2 wheel tractors
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2021 at 5:17pm
Intake .012" COLD....exhaust .021" COLD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2021 at 5:18pm
Sleeve standout ?? Anything up from flush is GOOD.
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55allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2021 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:


Sleeve standout ?? Anything up from flush is GOOD.

Ok than that’s good.
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55allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 55allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2021 at 8:12pm
How is the best way to soften the copper head gasket?
I think you have to heat it to a certain temperature than cover it in room temperature water.
I put it back together and it blew antifreeze out of the radiator worse than before. So I got it back apart.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alex09(WI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2021 at 10:11pm
Did you confirm that your sleeves were not sunk in the block?? Did you have the head pressure checked while it was off?? Crack the oil drain plug, does any antifreeze com out?? Need to narrow down what the problem is, not keep throwing money and time at it...  I believe overheating can be caused by compression leaking into the coolant, foaming antifreeze is also a sign.

A customer of mine has a wd45 diesel with BD230 engine. The BD230 evolved into the D262 that is in the D17d and D19d tractors. So very similar engines. Last spring he called me and said the tractor is overheating and temp gauge moves up and down rapidly. He took thermostat out, still same thing. 3 months later, he was using it and it blew antifreeze out radiator and out all hose connections. <- This is what happens when compression pressure gets into the coolant. He is now having the engine rebuilt. When I tore down the block a few weeks ago, 2, 4 and 5 sleeves were noticably sunk in the block, causing the head gasket to fail. Block top deck webs are cracked between 1-2, 2-3, 4-5, 5-6 and cracks through head bolt holes. Cylinder head is also cracked like yours, from injector tip bore to bottom and from pre-combustion chamber bore to bottom. I am not messing around. The head will be pressure checked and rebuilt. My block is a lot worse than expected for being a running engine 6 months ago, and will have to be welded and machined and decked. Hopefully yours doesn't need that much work.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 8:41am
55allis,
 Hope things are going good on your engine build. 
I always thought I might want one of these too. Then I met Don Bradley. Don and I talked over the phone many times. Several times he talked me down off the ledge about buying a WD45D. He was good at rebuilding them! I am not trying to discourage you in any way. And he did not discourage me either. But he told me that these are getting hard to find parts for. And they are fussy to work on. And if your going to have one rebuilt correctly then to reach in your pocket and see if you have 5 grand available? That made me think more about that engine. I dont have one yet!:) Still like them though!
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 8:50am
what are fire rings for???????????????????               MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ACjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 9:14am
If the cylinder sleeve protrusion is within factory spec's and the fire rings were good you'll need to check for a cracked cylinder sleeve. You'll be looking for a very fine hair line crack that's runs around the circumference of the sleeve. You'll be looking at the O D of the sleeve right under the sleeve flange. Thats where it fits down in the counterbore of the block. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2021 at 9:16am
Originally posted by MACK MACK wrote:

what are fire rings for???????????????????               MACK

....that's why I asked about them earlier....claimed not needed....really? Does everyone not know that sleeves move constantly even in a good engine?
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