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Allis CA |
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tadams(OH) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 10489 |
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Amazon has the paint your looking for
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8402 |
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tadams, Folks,
Thanks! I did some phone work and found the Antique White Rust-oleum paint at a value home center in Erie. I did get a first coat on the centers": Getting started on the maple syrup season. Hung 200 taps today. Cold out there! Sap might run on or about Feb 17th? We will continue to get ready and maby tap the hard maples around valentines day? Regards, Chris and Cheryl
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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DiyDave ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 52926 |
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Make sure you post where we can get some of that tariff free syrup...
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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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tadams(OH) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 10489 |
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Looking good Chris
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8402 |
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Guys,
Thanks! Still working on putting up tubing systems, to maybe make some syrup in the next few weeks. Getting too old for this stuff! Cheryl rode along in the truck for about 2 hours today with me. Not sure why she has put up with me this long? Regards, Chris and Cheryl |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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jvin248 ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Jan 2022 Location: Detroit Points: 391 |
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. We did maple syrup when I was a kid, spiles with jugs on the trees and hauled 10gal stainless milk cans up from the woods. Modern piping? It seems like a marvel. Lately I have been experimenting with sugar sorghum. Tree juice is 40:1 where sorghum is 13:1 plus has an edible grain head. Grows like corn, but can grow on poorer ground. I did a simple extraction and it came out well. I gave a pouch of seed to a friend still running trees, told him he might get two runs a year with his sugar shack. I'll see if he gets it growing. I'm expanding my plot this year. See how it goes. I have parts now to build a squeezer. Zone 5b for reference. .
Edited by jvin248 - 05 Feb 2025 at 8:39pm |
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8402 |
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jvin48,
A friend has shown interest in making sorghum sweetener. Some of the maple equipment we use today has design history in the sourgham production process. The CA project got a small push forward today as Cheryl and I visited Brenda at Sandy Lake IMP to exchange some extra Allis parts with some needed parts for this old tractor project. Great to have her help with parts and information as we work on these Allis projects! Regards, Chris and Cheryl
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8402 |
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Guys,
I got the degree wheel today. Yea you get what you pay for! might be the smallest degree wheel ever made. It may work? Suggestions are always welcome. So I need to find or build a slip on clamp down unit for the crank shaft. Or as mentioned putting this degree wheel on the rear of the engine as an alternative, might be as easy?? Regards, Chris and Cheryl |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Les Kerf ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 987 |
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Tap the oil wick hole in the rear of the crankshaft and thread a suitable bolt in there to hold the degree wheel. Edit: Use threaded rod rather than a bolt so as to be able to secure the degree wheel with two nuts
Edited by Les Kerf - 09 Feb 2025 at 11:52am |
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Les Kerf ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 987 |
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Myself being a cheapskate I use this downloadable degree wheel and print it to whatever size I want.
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8402 |
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Les, folks,
Thanks! I printed out a couple of the wheels at 150% size. I will think about the rear of the crank for mounting too. trying to learn something new. I am not an engine builder. But I would like this old CA to run well. So today I took the head off and have removed the remaining gasket material from the block: Still need to clean the gasket material from the head: back to the block final cleaning to follow: Also sketched out the fitting if I decide to attach the degree wheel to the front of the crank snout. But I like the idea on the back of the crank. We are in cold weather conditions. Our driveway is solid ice. We got snow last night which I thought might help a little with traction. NOT! I went to cross the drive and fell on my back and hit my head on the ice. Crawled back to the shop and mostly hurt my pride. Regards, Chris and Cheryl
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3679 |
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Dang!! Be careful out there
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ACinSC ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 16 Dec 2015 Location: South Carolina Points: 2824 |
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Yeah Chris,be careful. Falling ain't good.
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8402 |
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Folks,
Moving at the speed of slow. That copper spray coating for head gaskets really sticks great! I had to remove the gasket material with a razor blade. Then scuffing the surfaces with scotch brite. They will be ready when this goes back together some day. Our friend John has been coming to visit and also has been cleaning hardware to assemble the wheels to the rims. Awesome to get some things coming together! I did print out some larger degree wheels as noted above. Punched a 3/8 hole in the center. Still debating the front or rear of the engine to attach the degree wheel. I just dont have much room at the back unless I remove the engine from the stand and support it a different way. I have yet to remove the front timing cover. Maybe soon? Trying to keep Cheryl company as much as possible these days. She sets near me and watches me work on her CA tractor project. I bought it for her and me. Her initials are CA. Regards, Chris and Cheryl
Edited by Sugarmaker - 10 Feb 2025 at 6:37pm |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Les Kerf ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 987 |
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You can get as fancy or as simple as you like; I have a large, round (strong) magnet that I used to stick the degree wheel right on the front of the crank snout on my Model C engine. It takes a bit of fiddling to get it positioned correctly, but it isn't really too difficult. With the head off the engine, it is easy to make a physical stop for the piston, just bolt a suitable metal strap with a hole in the middle across #1 cylinder. Fasten a suitable bolt through the hole, using nuts on each side to allow adjusting the bolt so as to stop the piston about 1/2" before TDC. The closer the bolt is to the center of the piston the better in order minimize any rocking effect of the piston in the cylinder. Fashion a pointer out of some stiff wire. Attach it to the engine somewhere so as to allow the pointy end to point where you think TDC may be on the degree wheel. Gently rotate the engine until the piston contacts the stop bolt (gently, because we don't really want a hole in the piston). Make a mark on the degree wheel where the pointer points to. Rotate the engine the other way to the stop bolt. Make another mark on the degree wheel. Halfway between the marks is TDC. Make a mark at TDC Re-position the degree wheel and the pointer until everything is centered up and the degree wheel Zero mark is straight up at TDC. This may take several iterations. The keyway on your CA engine should be straight up at TDC. This all makes more sense when you are actually doing it rather than reading some drivel that I wrote on the internet ![]() This is about the lowest cost method I can think of, which is why I do it this way, but done carefully it will get you within one degree. The sky is the limit from here, and your mileage may vary.
Edited by Les Kerf - 12 Feb 2025 at 11:07am |
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8402 |
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Les, folks,
Thanks this makes good sense. I like the idea of the magnet to hold the degree wheel. I would not have thought of that simple method of attaching the degree wheel. I am going to follow that method, as it sounds like it will be simple. I am looking forward to get the cam to crank data, and plan any next steps. Regards, Chris and Cheryl
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Les Kerf ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 987 |
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The only valve timing specs I have are for a Model C from a 1950 edition of Chilton's Motor Age Flat Rate and Service Manual, and the specs are incomplete as they only give the valve timing at the overlap position, but it is a starting point. Tappet Clearance for Valve Timing: 0.010" Inlet, 0.010" Exhaust Inlet Valve Opens: TDC Exhaust Valve Closes: 10 Degrees ATDC I interpret this to mean that 0.010" lifter rise on Intake should occur at TDC, and at 10 degrees ATDC the lifter should have 0.010" before bottoming out. I hope someone will chime in with full cam specs; the search function on this site is very poor. You cannot search for anything that has less than three letters in the word, so searching for a Model C or CA doesn't work. Edited by Les Kerf - 12 Feb 2025 at 11:10pm |
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8402 |
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Les,
You might not have seen the specs I posted? Here they are : Any comments on those cam specs? I have more questions than answers, first is that intake valve starting to open 9.3 degrees before top dead center? I need to print off a slightly smaller degree wheel to turn between the studs for the front bolster. I tried a couple magnets and this may work just fine. Regards, Chris and Cheryl Edited by Sugarmaker - 13 Feb 2025 at 5:43pm |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Les Kerf ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 987 |
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Sounds like you are making progress ![]() My first question is: At what amount of lifter rise are those specs taken? Typically it would be at 0.050" but it is never good to 'assume'. The intake is shown opening 9.3 Degrees after TDC (at whatever lifter rise is intended). Try 0.050" and see how it looks at both opening and closing. Please be clear, I have never built a performance tractor engine, just cars and trucks. It is my understanding that due to the siamesed ports on these Allis engines that you have to have fairly short cam durations. This cam would be considered quite mild on a street rod (assuming those duration numbers are indeed at 0.050") but may be about right for a tractor puller. |
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8402 |
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Les, folks,
I am in a learning mode for sure. Have watched many YouTube videos on other cams and I see/ hear the .050 checking dimension. I don't know about this cam. The specs are all I got so I may have to try to try different methods and record and check the specs. Regards, Chris and Cheryl
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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IBWD MIke ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Location: Newton Ia. Points: 3888 |
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Question. On an engine that makes approximately 25 HP, what is the potential gain from all the work required to degree the cam?
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 84230 |
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piston displacement stays the same.. You can only get so much air thru the engine for each revolution... Change the cam normally has to go along with increased engine speed ( and psitons for more compression) to cram more air / fuel thru to get more HP....... Changing the cam only , will PROBABLY not get you much difference at 1650 rpm.
Edited by steve(ill) - 14 Feb 2025 at 9:37am |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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PaulB ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 4884 |
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In the beginning, I tried to convince Chris to get a ready to run CE block engine from me that would be close to 50 HP, but I guess his priority was pretty paint and probably chrome also
![]() Although in all seriousness when we first conversed as he started this project, he informed me his local pull are the Grampa Gear restricted type and with the slow ratio low gears a CA has, As long as the engine runs balance is more important than power. He's going to have a beautiful tractor when he's done.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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Les Kerf ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 987 |
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Pretty much nothing, unless you find that it is WAY off. It would take a very determined dyno operator a lot of time and money to conduct A-B-A testing with the cam at 2 degree intervals to Plus and Minus 10 degrees from stock to really PROVE anything. But that isn't the point. It is always nice to know that it is as correct as it should be, and some of us just like to play with our toys
![]() Edited by Les Kerf - 14 Feb 2025 at 11:29am |
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8402 |
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Allis folks,
Not expecting much improvement in CA horsepower, if we get the new 175 grind cam issue resolved. Made a run at the checking of the cam specs today, more to learn and do. Just some random pictures. May pick up a couple sets of plugs for that first pull. The original goal of this cam change was to replace the original cam because of worn lobes. Did it run? Yes it did. Regards, Chris and Cheryl
Edited by Sugarmaker - 14 Feb 2025 at 8:40pm |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3679 |
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I like what you're doing. Nothing wrong in learning engine building procedures and knowing what you have
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8402 |
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plummer, guys,
So I was able to spend some additional time playing with the cam and its location. My systems and tools are rather crude but continue to improve and learn on this degreeing thing. Will have some questions. Some of these things no one will ever use! Note I added a stiff angle bracket out the front to do two things. First I can mount the dial indicator base in a place. I can see the dial while I use a bar to turn the crank at the back of the block. Second I can use this bracket to stop the piston before TDC in both directions. The intake push rod was flopping around a little so I wrapped the stem with tape to tighten it up as it came through the block. Was also getting some slightly off dimensions when the indicator was riding in the radius in the top of the push rod. So I added a razor blade across the top of the push rod to minimize errors in the readings. A small short socket provided the stop, about 3/4 inch below TDC. Checked the degree wheel numbers both ways and averaged those to get the wheel set on the snout of the crank. The magnets worked very well to hold the degree wheel in place: On the back of the stiff paper wheel I added a circle to see if the paper was moving. The magnets held the wheel fine. Saved building a tool I would not use again. Good suggestion by Les. Shot of the cam in current location. Ok some numbers. The cam lift is .260 About .004 shy of the spec. But after about 10 checks that's what it is. The intake cam lobe center-line spec was 105.4 degrees ATDC. I watched some additional videos and began using the .050 inch before and after the top of the cam lobe inspection method.(as mentioned above) And then checking the degree wheel numbers and averaging them to get the actual cam lobe center-line number. After another 6 checks of the center-line I have determined it is approx 111 degrees ATDC therefore 5.6 degrees more than the spec. Checked about 6 times and I feel this is correct. So next will be to plan the cam and gear work required to get this back near the correct location. Regards, Chris and Cheryl Edited by Sugarmaker - 15 Feb 2025 at 8:17pm |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 84230 |
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Chris, when they made the cam did it come with MARKS for installation ? I assume thats what you used for the original build......Just asking, what your doing now is to VERIFY the cam and POSSIBLE move the gear on the cam a few degrees ( cut a new keyway ??) to get the SPEC numbers to agree ??
I have only done this once. Rebuilding an old CASE 153 motor that had 3 different timing marks on the cam gear and i didnt know which one was correct... Didnt move the GEAR... just checked out the "BTDC" opening...
Edited by steve(ill) - 15 Feb 2025 at 8:21pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Les Kerf ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 987 |
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The intake closing event is the most important point, try moving it one tooth and see what it looks like.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 84230 |
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i was wondering about that Les... the cam has "about" 50 teeth so divide that into 360 degrees and each tooth is "about " 7 degrees ?? ........... i would guess thats how it works..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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