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Ac WD45 starting

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jvin248 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jvin248 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2024 at 7:25pm
.

6v is fine until it reveals unreliability.
Then I convert to 12v. No time for messing around and trying to maintain 'originality'. Be practical.

Go through and polish all connections and lube with dielectric grease to protect from corrosion and oxidation.

.


Edited by jvin248 - 20 Jan 2024 at 7:27pm
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Jim.ME View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim.ME Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2024 at 7:11am
Originally posted by AC WD45 AC WD45 wrote:

My 57 WD45 has a D17 kit. Still on the factory 6v system. The solution was to add a second 6v battery in a WC box on the frame rail where it would go on the WC. The holes are already there IIRC. We wired that battery to the starter. This gives the starter 12v when cranking and that tractor will fire off on the coldest day of the year. Cranks over nice and quick. 3 or 4 turns sometimes less and it fires.

I may need another coffee to clear my head.  I am not following how you have 12 volts at the starter unless you wired the two six-volt batteries in series.  If both batteries are wired to the starter they would be parallel and still only provide six volts at the starter (with greater CCA available from the combined two batteries).  If wired in series it doesn't seem it would charge both batteries or work properly as a straight six-volt system.  Do you have a 6/12 series parallel switch?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2024 at 8:32am
This thread has made me suspicious of the starter in my NF 45. Spins the engine great but I don't think I'm getting full voltage to the coil causing it to start hard. A project for a warmer day! Wish we would get some of those warmer days as sitting around dreaming up more projects all the time is really filling this years schedule!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunter321 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 12:27pm
Anyone know a idea of what getting a stater rebuilt might cost.
It's going to have to wait until it gets warmer but I'd like to save up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dfwallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by hunter321 hunter321 wrote:

Anyone know a idea of what getting a stater rebuilt might cost.
It's going to have to wait until it gets warmer but I'd like to save up

Mine was about $280 but they replaced some additional things like the throw-out gear and upgraded a sleave to a ball bearing.  Delco-Remy parts appear to be easy to get.


Edited by dfwallis - 22 Jan 2024 at 2:46pm
1952 CA13092
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 2:32pm
I'm just old enough to remember how Dad's WD-45 started on a C-O-L-D winter day (minus -10F) with a tune-up (new plugs and points) a good 6-volt battery, and 10wt oil in the crankcase.  Throttle was set at a certain spot on the quadrant. Choke fully pulled out. Foot clutch pushed in fully. A moment of silence. Pull hard on the starter ring.... waaah.....waaah.....waaah and it would fire on the 3rd waaah !!! While barely enough battery and starter to turn it over, it NEVER failed to start. You did NOT let go of the choke because there may not have been enough battery for a second chance !!!!!!!!!!  This was a stock WD-45 engine. Nothing overbore or high compression. 

Edited by DrAllis - 22 Jan 2024 at 2:50pm
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Ed (Ont) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 7:06pm
Mine starts like that as well. All original 6 volt and points. I use it in the middle of winter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 7:51pm
I always believed that my 6 Volt 1955 Ford 272 V8 spun over faster than the WD45's with which I was familiar back in my youth. My theory was that the V8 had significantly smaller displacement per cylinder whereas a 226 Cubic Inch four-banger had to pull a bigger jug over the top each time. I dunno. Could be my poor memory too Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AC WD45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2024 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by Jim.ME Jim.ME wrote:

Originally posted by AC WD45 AC WD45 wrote:

My 57 WD45 has a D17 kit. Still on the factory 6v system. The solution was to add a second 6v battery in a WC box on the frame rail where it would go on the WC. The holes are already there IIRC. We wired that battery to the starter. This gives the starter 12v when cranking and that tractor will fire off on the coldest day of the year. Cranks over nice and quick. 3 or 4 turns sometimes less and it fires.


I may need another coffee to clear my head.  I am not following how you have 12 volts at the starter unless you wired the two six-volt batteries in series.  If both batteries are wired to the starter they would be parallel and still only provide six volts at the starter (with greater CCA available from the combined two batteries).  If wired in series it doesn't seem it would charge both batteries or work properly as a straight six-volt system.  Do you have a 6/12 series parallel switch?


Jim, I'm certainly not denying my lack of electical knowledge on the side of wiring in series vs parallel.

As for charging. Only the main battery is charged by the generator. A standard 6v charger was used to maintain the second battery when needed. Usually once or twice a year. Atleast that's how we always did it.
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1957 Allis Chalmers WD45
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1951 Allis Chalmers WD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2024 at 10:59am
Originally posted by AC WD45 AC WD45 wrote:

My 57 WD45 has a D17 kit. Still on the factory 6v system. The solution was to add a second 6v battery in a WC box on the frame rail where it would go on the WC. The holes are already there IIRC. We wired that battery to the starter. This gives the starter 12v when cranking and that tractor will fire off on the coldest day of the year. Cranks over nice and quick. 3 or 4 turns sometimes less and it fires.


If you truly have 12 volts to the starter that means you have the batteries wired in series (6 + 6 = 12), this also means you are trying to charge this 12 volt combined battery with a 6 Volt generator.

Unless, as was mentioned above, you have a 6/12 parallel switch, but if it is wired correctly it will then switch back to the equivalent of one big 6 Volt battery and will charge it as such.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2024 at 5:34pm
from a previous post it appears all they did was add a second battery and run straight to the starter.. Still a 6 volt system, but twice the amps.. Dont turn over much faster, but maybe crank a little longer. ... He had the original generator and light switch resistor for a 6v charge system. .......... since the two batteries were in Parallel, the 6v charge system should "try" to keep both batteries charged.

Edited by steve(ill) - 23 Jan 2024 at 5:38pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2024 at 6:34pm
You can put 16 6V Batteries in that Tractor, but if the Starter is completely shot it's gonna draaaaaag or do nothing!  As far as the cost of rebuilt Starters, it greatly depends on the Starter type and design. For a 6V Starter rebuild say for a B,C,CA Tractor, I charge $285. And that's with all new components, rewound Armature in it for a little more torque, and a new switch to boot.  For a few more bucks, I can set it up with a Starter solenoid getting rid of that PIA mechanical switch.  Different Starters have different components inside em'. so rebuilding prices vary. Also, it depends on what condition the Starter motor is in as well. Probably the hardest part of the whole thing now a days is finding a shop that still does a great job and does it right. Us older dudes are retiring or passing. I'm still hanging in there yet, but one day I"ll be hanging it up as well.
'
Talking about 55' Fords with 6V systems, Jo Jo's T-bird was 6V with vacuum wipers. Wow, all that had ta' go. I wound up wiring that vehicle Headlight to Tailight and installing an electric wiper motor in the middle. Upgrade the blower motor to a 56' T-Bird motor (12V)  The main reason I did that is so I don't have to chase after her if she breaks down.  It also has disc brakes up front so it stops for the Deer around here, and an O.D. tranny in it out of a 86' T-Bird to cruise down the highways.  Oh yeah, and a Pertronix E.I. too!  That thing runs sweet!

Sometimes you're better off purchasing a new Starter if its available than trying to rebuild the original. All depends, on application, availability the individual that owns the vehicle, and the shop doing the work. Every year it gets tougher and tougher to get quality parts for these rebuilds. Its a good thing I bought inventory from old electrical shops years ago that closed up with this old stuff, so I have a little bit of inventory of parts myself. I don't have everything though that's fir' sure!
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2024 at 2:35am
Originally posted by Les Kerf Les Kerf wrote:

I always believed that my 6 Volt 1955 Ford 272 V8 spun over faster than the WD45's with which I was familiar back in my youth. My theory was that the V8 had significantly smaller displacement per cylinder whereas a 226 Cubic Inch four-banger had to pull a bigger jug over the top each time. I dunno. Could be my poor memory too Wink


That's exactly why, and more, Les...   the 272 V8's cylinders were 3.6x3.3, and occuring twice as often, vs. the WD45's 4x4.5.  The V8's larger bore/shorter stroke, and divided amongst twice as many cylinders meant that the force required to cross TDC on a compression stroke was significantly less, EVEN WITH more moving parts.

My '29 Ford A still runs the 6v foot pedal... and it doesn't matter WHAT time of year... starter, cables, battery perfect, fuel on, mixture set, choke set, spark advance retarded, ignition switch on, push the pedal and it's Errr.... rrREER.... rrREEER.... PlharoOOOMmmm... cough cough cough... fup fup fup whatta fup whatta whatta whatta.....


The three turns is a logical thing-  when an engine is cold, cylinders have no charge... you have to cross three compression strokes to get to one cylinder that's gone through a full intake cycle, and that's where (under normal circumstances) your first ignitable charge will be.  My neighbor is amazed that my '38B hand starts so predictably on that third pull.  Now... on engines that have primer cups, they'll fire on the first compression stroke.  My Fairbanks Morse ZC-118 and ZC208... push the intake valve open, give 'em a quick touch to the primer button, and pull the flywheel up to TDC, and just a little past, as soon as the magneto impulser clacks, it's running... so keep your fingers out'a the spokes!
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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