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AC 7000 Throwing A/C Belt

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Hurst View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 9:21pm
Farmboy, do you have a picture of the setup? It may come to that, but I think have an underlying problem bc before I never lost a belt like this.

Red, I'm going to try the idler to see if that helps. I don't think the groove in the crack is worn, as the belt doesn't sit below the surface of the pulley. I need to check to make sure something doesn't get jammed in the groove. That would be too easy, right?

I'm still wondering if the compressor hissing has anything to do with it like something wrong in the compressor or liquid refrigerant in the compressor evaporating.

Hurst
1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnkc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 9:42pm
I would think the hissing @ the compressor would be normal as the high & low pressures equalize.
I support the development of hybrid automobiles and alternative fuels as I need DIESEL fuel for my ALLIS CHALMERS!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tbran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 9:59pm
correct on the hissing, = high should be 225 and low less than 20 on the pressures on a 85-90 degree day - I know AGCO or AC doesn't make belts - bet there ARE a difference in belts as to cords and material -- I would try a 70268485 - I think, agco belt , bring the high side up to just over 200 psi - then then low should be around 20 - then turn the ac blower to low and close the door -at about 1500 rpm, watch the low pressure - it should go down to around 10 or 12 and the thermostat should kick out...
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farmboy520 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 11:48am
I'll take a picture tonight for you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 2:46pm
Sounds great, I'll keep an eye out for it.  Sorry I haven't updated anything on this, I ordered a new idler and had the old one off, so I figured I would try it first (it was less than $15 shipped, so easy place to start especially since the old one was running dry).  As soon as I get that on, I'll try running more of the suggested tests if nothing changes.

Best,

Hurst
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2018 at 3:19pm
Got the new idler on, and at first it seemed like everything was going pretty well.  Let it run around at high idle for a minute, and noticed the whip starting to come back, but it was more of a twang this time with an occasional jump.  Well, shut it down, tightened the belt a little more, and started it back again, and this time it was pretty quiet at idle, so I put it up to around 1500 rpms and came back to watch, and the belt was really moving around, then it jumped right off after less than a minute.  I quickly shut the tractor off and went to turn the compressor by hand, and it felt like turning over a large chainsaw or other single cylinder 2 stroke motor.  Difficult for about 1/2 of the turn, then felt like it went over TDC and was pretty easy again (I had to look again to convince myself I didn't have a single cylinder York compressor up there!).  I'm starting to think I have a compressor that has something wrong internally.  Shouldn't an A6 be pretty consistent turning resistance the whole way around being an axial piston compressor?

Hurst
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2018 at 7:42pm
I do believe your compressor has issues,, jmtcs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2018 at 9:15pm
Your system still had pressure so would turn hard. How did it turn after it set for a hour?
Change the dampener.      MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2018 at 10:50am
doesn't that balancer have timing marks? See if they are where they belong when pumping timing is where it belongs.Will indicate if ring slipped.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2018 at 4:28pm
Mack (and all others), if the balancer is causing the belt whipping issue, would it do it both with the compressor engaged and disengaged, and if the compressor is causing the issue, would it only whip when the compressor is engaged?  Also, when you say change the balancer, is that because the rubber has become dry rotten and swelled a little at the edges?  I'll try to check the timing marks on the pump vs the crank to see if I have any slippage.  I looked yesterday, and it looked like it was spinning pretty true, so I'm not sure if the heat had my eyes deceiving me or if where the tractor is kind of dark, that's playing tricks on my eyes.  I think Dale starts back up in July with rebuilding them, would it be a good investment to have it done even if it doesn't show any symptoms of slipping?

Steve, the balancer has timing marks, I'll have to clean off the plastered bug guts and pop the cover off of the injection pump and see how things line up.  

As for how the compressor feels, when it has sat for a while, it is much easier to turn, but it still feels like a single cylinder engine as I turn it around.  I feel like I remember A6 compressors having a pretty consistent torque as you went around, maybe feel a little bit of the impulse from each of the 6 pistons as it went around.

Hurst
1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farmboy520 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 8:10am
Sorry for taking so long
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 12:07pm
No worries, I appreciate the picture.  It looks like the 7020 has a little different accessory belt path than the 7000, but the A/C is the same.  My alternator is on the tractor's left side.  I will hang onto this photo in case it comes down to adding another pulley.  Oddly, the side that whips the most is the side with the tensioner on it.  The worst part is between the crank pulley and the tensioner.  I'm contemplating a new compressor since it feels like it is only compressing about 1/2 of the rotation, whereas an axial compressor, it should feel like a pretty consistent torque all the way around.

Hurst
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Bank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 12:10pm
Like I said earlier Hurst I don't want you throw parts at it but if it was mine I would try a compressor first, so I think you are in the right path.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 12:14pm
Look at it like this....nothing wrong with having a new compressor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 12:37pm
I love the way you think, Steve! Only problem is if I don't rein myself on, the tractor won't be broke, but I will be Haha If something is letting go inside, it is probably a good time to get it replaced before it dumps trash into the system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bradley6874 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 1:09pm
Pop the top off the cab find the bulb for the txv pay attention to location on the tube remove the bulb from the suction line start up tractor check pressure then stick bulb in cup hot water after couple min check presure then switch to cold water after few minutes check pressure switch back and forth couple times txv valves will some times stick or plug up the hot cold back and forth opens and closes full if it goes to working you can let it run but eventually it will do it again ( guarantee when it's hot as hell and you got lots to do )is when it will
You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 2:58pm
Bradley,

I went to try and do what you were talking about, but the belt keeps coming off every time I get up to the cab roof (about 45 seconds or so).  Here is a video of how the compressor turns immediately after shutting the tractor off when it throws the belt.  I don't remember having an A6 compressor turn like this.  If someone can verify how an a6 compressor turns after it has been on long enough to build up pressure, that would be a big help.  I feel like I remember it being tough, but it didn't vary a whole lot as you turned it.  I'm wondering if my expansion valve is sticking open and has cracked some pistons or the valve plate on a couple of pistons from hydro-locking?  

Here is what it looks like turning over by hand.  You can tell how it goes from tough to turning very easily, like part of the rotation is not used to compress anything.

[TUBE]w3KNGrKep6g[/TUBE]


Hurst
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stan R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 3:24pm
But if the belt bounces when the compressor is disengaged (ac off), then it ain't that as it is just acting like an idler pulley. Which I then gather from other posts it is your dampener.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 4:04pm
Sorry for the delay, I meant to check this earlier and forgot, but the harmonic balancer hasn't slipped (or if it did, it slipped an exact revolution).  Injection pump timing marks line up to the pulley marks.  Glad I checked that, because it led me to notice I have a slight bend in the fan blade, probably from one of the belts that got thrown.  Definitely need to get that replaced before it takes out the 1yo radiator... Thumbs Down

I may have mis-typed earlier, but the belt hardly bounces (no more than the normal little bit of bounce it has always had, but nothing near causing it to jump or rub another belt) when the compressor is disengaged.  Turn on the A/C and the belt starts to dance.  

Hurst
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 10:00pm
A Fridgidaire A6 is an axial style compressor. It has 3 double acting pistons on a swash plate for 6 cylinders total. If you're familiar with a hydrostatic pump, the basic designs are the same. The drag should be fairly even turning by hand. That long belt stretches under load. With a missing stroke or two, it's stretching and releasing giving you that dance.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2018 at 10:11pm
Guess I'll give a new compressor a try (and expansion valve and receiver dryer, along with a flush).  I think I might spend the extra $100-150 and get the new Saltech/Sanden style conversion with the high and low pressure cutout switches as well.  I'm not sure a good A6 reman compressor exists these days as the cores are getting so old and the rebuild quality is going down hill...

Hurst


Edited by Hurst - 28 Jun 2018 at 10:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2018 at 6:50am
I haven't read every response here but are you still using the same belt that has been thrown? If that belt has any broken internal bands it will never stay on and would whip a bit.
Never mind, going back to page one on your original post it looks like you have addressed that.



Edited by Lonn - 29 Jun 2018 at 6:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim NH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2018 at 11:21am
Hi Hurst, sorry about thinking it was the water pump. I didn't want to go out that night and verify that. I have a 7000 maroon belly. I finally had time today to check my compressor. It turns evenly and smoothly, w/ constant pressure all the way around. You can see it is a reman. After like a 1/2 hour w/ the ac running, my feet and legs get cold. So I would say this company has a good product.  Tim
1950 WD 1959 D14 1955 WD45 1976 7000 B 207
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote exSW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2018 at 12:31pm
Great thread.
Especially since I'm resurrecting the ac in my 7010.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2018 at 4:02pm
I'll be sure to post how the conversion kit from All State Ag Parts works. I thunk it's the same asthe Hy Capacity kit, so either a Sanden SD7H15 or a Saltec TM16 compressor. It will add low and high pressure cutout switches, as well if there kit is what they said.

Tim, do you have R134a for refrigerant? I ran my last remand on R152A and it would keep it chilly in the cab except from 4ish to 6 when the sun got low and the heat of the day set in, but that was more the sun heating me up than the air getting hot. If I didn't have to drive through barns in the winter, I'd probably tint the windows a little too help with that. Not sure if I'll go the 134 or 152 route this time. I sure did love the lower head pressures of the 152 and have almost enough left over from the last compressor replacement.

Hurst
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2018 at 4:46pm
I would go Sanden without question. They are a very popular unit known for efficiency and reliability. Not that it's an issue on a tractor engine, but a Sanden will tolerate up to 6000 sustained RPMs, making them the go to unit for classic car upgrades/retrofits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim NH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2018 at 8:41pm
I will look tomorrow and see what it has. I don't want to guess from the chair. lol  Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim NH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2018 at 7:15am
The small dial to the left of the red tape says R 134a. I used a 1 gallon pump sprayer w/ straight water to clean the heater and evaporator cores. I also used 3/4 Pex ball valves in the heater hoses. They fit tight in the hose.  I have that sun tint film come down about 12" from the top of each window. Tim  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote erikIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2018 at 10:29am
Thanks for posting the pictures of the cab roof removal- I need to replace the expansion valve on my maroon belly 7000 and I was thinking I'd need to take the cover off the ceiling of the cab to get to it...  Removing the cab roof to access the expansion valve looks so much simpler and I like the idea of adding insulation.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote erikIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2018 at 11:01am
By the way, I just replaced the compressor on my 7000 about a month ago.  I got a rebuilt A6 unit from o'riley auto parts for about $156 and it fit perfectly. It even has a warranty.  It is the same one that they put on a 78 chevy silverado pickup. Part number is 57094. Everything lined up nice and it works well.  

I found a filter/drier at all states ag parts for $19 (fits perfect) and an expansion valve for $23 (I still need to install it since my low pressure is too low and my high pressure is a little too high).
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