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AC 7000 Throwing A/C Belt |
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Hurst
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1211 |
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Farmboy, do you have a picture of the setup? It may come to that, but I think have an underlying problem bc before I never lost a belt like this.
Red, I'm going to try the idler to see if that helps. I don't think the groove in the crack is worn, as the belt doesn't sit below the surface of the pulley. I need to check to make sure something doesn't get jammed in the groove. That would be too easy, right? I'm still wondering if the compressor hissing has anything to do with it like something wrong in the compressor or liquid refrigerant in the compressor evaporating. Hurst |
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours |
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johnkc
Orange Level Joined: 22 Sep 2009 Location: KCMO Points: 713 |
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I would think the hissing @ the compressor would be normal as the high & low pressures equalize.
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I support the development of hybrid automobiles and alternative fuels as I need DIESEL fuel for my ALLIS CHALMERS!
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tbran
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3285 |
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correct on the hissing, = high should be 225 and low less than 20 on the pressures on a 85-90 degree day - I know AGCO or AC doesn't make belts - bet there ARE a difference in belts as to cords and material -- I would try a 70268485 - I think, agco belt , bring the high side up to just over 200 psi - then then low should be around 20 - then turn the ac blower to low and close the door -at about 1500 rpm, watch the low pressure - it should go down to around 10 or 12 and the thermostat should kick out...
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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farmboy520
Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Location: Beason, IL Points: 553 |
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I'll take a picture tonight for you
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Hurst
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1211 |
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Sounds great, I'll keep an eye out for it. Sorry I haven't updated anything on this, I ordered a new idler and had the old one off, so I figured I would try it first (it was less than $15 shipped, so easy place to start especially since the old one was running dry). As soon as I get that on, I'll try running more of the suggested tests if nothing changes.
Best, Hurst
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours |
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Hurst
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1211 |
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Got the new idler on, and at first it seemed like everything was going pretty well. Let it run around at high idle for a minute, and noticed the whip starting to come back, but it was more of a twang this time with an occasional jump. Well, shut it down, tightened the belt a little more, and started it back again, and this time it was pretty quiet at idle, so I put it up to around 1500 rpms and came back to watch, and the belt was really moving around, then it jumped right off after less than a minute. I quickly shut the tractor off and went to turn the compressor by hand, and it felt like turning over a large chainsaw or other single cylinder 2 stroke motor. Difficult for about 1/2 of the turn, then felt like it went over TDC and was pretty easy again (I had to look again to convince myself I didn't have a single cylinder York compressor up there!). I'm starting to think I have a compressor that has something wrong internally. Shouldn't an A6 be pretty consistent turning resistance the whole way around being an axial piston compressor?
Hurst
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours |
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DougG
Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 8092 |
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I do believe your compressor has issues,, jmtcs
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MACK
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Your system still had pressure so would turn hard. How did it turn after it set for a hour?
Change the dampener. MACK |
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8163 |
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doesn't that balancer have timing marks? See if they are where they belong when pumping timing is where it belongs.Will indicate if ring slipped.
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Hurst
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1211 |
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Mack (and all others), if the balancer is causing the belt whipping issue, would it do it both with the compressor engaged and disengaged, and if the compressor is causing the issue, would it only whip when the compressor is engaged? Also, when you say change the balancer, is that because the rubber has become dry rotten and swelled a little at the edges? I'll try to check the timing marks on the pump vs the crank to see if I have any slippage. I looked yesterday, and it looked like it was spinning pretty true, so I'm not sure if the heat had my eyes deceiving me or if where the tractor is kind of dark, that's playing tricks on my eyes. I think Dale starts back up in July with rebuilding them, would it be a good investment to have it done even if it doesn't show any symptoms of slipping?
Steve, the balancer has timing marks, I'll have to clean off the plastered bug guts and pop the cover off of the injection pump and see how things line up. As for how the compressor feels, when it has sat for a while, it is much easier to turn, but it still feels like a single cylinder engine as I turn it around. I feel like I remember A6 compressors having a pretty consistent torque as you went around, maybe feel a little bit of the impulse from each of the 6 pistons as it went around. Hurst |
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours |
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farmboy520
Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Location: Beason, IL Points: 553 |
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Sorry for taking so long
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Hurst
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1211 |
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No worries, I appreciate the picture. It looks like the 7020 has a little different accessory belt path than the 7000, but the A/C is the same. My alternator is on the tractor's left side. I will hang onto this photo in case it comes down to adding another pulley. Oddly, the side that whips the most is the side with the tensioner on it. The worst part is between the crank pulley and the tensioner. I'm contemplating a new compressor since it feels like it is only compressing about 1/2 of the rotation, whereas an axial compressor, it should feel like a pretty consistent torque all the way around.
Hurst
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours |
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Red Bank
Orange Level Access Joined: 18 Apr 2018 Location: Germanton NC Points: 1049 |
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Like I said earlier Hurst I don't want you throw parts at it but if it was mine I would try a compressor first, so I think you are in the right path.
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8163 |
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Look at it like this....nothing wrong with having a new compressor
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Hurst
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1211 |
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I love the way you think, Steve! Only problem is if I don't rein myself on, the tractor won't be broke, but I will be Haha If something is letting go inside, it is probably a good time to get it replaced before it dumps trash into the system.
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours |
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bradley6874
Orange Level Joined: 05 Sep 2010 Location: salisbury md Points: 1344 |
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Pop the top off the cab find the bulb for the txv pay attention to location on the tube remove the bulb from the suction line start up tractor check pressure then stick bulb in cup hot water after couple min check presure then switch to cold water after few minutes check pressure switch back and forth couple times txv valves will some times stick or plug up the hot cold back and forth opens and closes full if it goes to working you can let it run but eventually it will do it again ( guarantee when it's hot as hell and you got lots to do )is when it will
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You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul
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Hurst
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1211 |
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Bradley,
I went to try and do what you were talking about, but the belt keeps coming off every time I get up to the cab roof (about 45 seconds or so). Here is a video of how the compressor turns immediately after shutting the tractor off when it throws the belt. I don't remember having an A6 compressor turn like this. If someone can verify how an a6 compressor turns after it has been on long enough to build up pressure, that would be a big help. I feel like I remember it being tough, but it didn't vary a whole lot as you turned it. I'm wondering if my expansion valve is sticking open and has cracked some pistons or the valve plate on a couple of pistons from hydro-locking? Here is what it looks like turning over by hand. You can tell how it goes from tough to turning very easily, like part of the rotation is not used to compress anything. [TUBE]w3KNGrKep6g[/TUBE] Hurst
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours |
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Stan R
Orange Level Access Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Location: MA Points: 959 |
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But if the belt bounces when the compressor is disengaged (ac off), then it ain't that as it is just acting like an idler pulley. Which I then gather from other posts it is your dampener.
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Hurst
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1211 |
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Sorry for the delay, I meant to check this earlier and forgot, but the harmonic balancer hasn't slipped (or if it did, it slipped an exact revolution). Injection pump timing marks line up to the pulley marks. Glad I checked that, because it led me to notice I have a slight bend in the fan blade, probably from one of the belts that got thrown. Definitely need to get that replaced before it takes out the 1yo radiator...
I may have mis-typed earlier, but the belt hardly bounces (no more than the normal little bit of bounce it has always had, but nothing near causing it to jump or rub another belt) when the compressor is disengaged. Turn on the A/C and the belt starts to dance.
Hurst |
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours |
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Prairie City Ia Points: 10508 |
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A Fridgidaire A6 is an axial style compressor. It has 3 double acting pistons on a swash plate for 6 cylinders total. If you're familiar with a hydrostatic pump, the basic designs are the same. The drag should be fairly even turning by hand. That long belt stretches under load. With a missing stroke or two, it's stretching and releasing giving you that dance.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Hurst
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1211 |
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Guess I'll give a new compressor a try (and expansion valve and receiver dryer, along with a flush). I think I might spend the extra $100-150 and get the new Saltech/Sanden style conversion with the high and low pressure cutout switches as well. I'm not sure a good A6 reman compressor exists these days as the cores are getting so old and the rebuild quality is going down hill...
Hurst
Edited by Hurst - 28 Jun 2018 at 10:12pm |
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours |
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Lonn
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29781 |
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I haven't read every response here but are you still using the same belt that has been thrown? If that belt has any broken internal bands it will never stay on and would whip a bit. Never mind, going back to page one on your original post it looks like you have addressed that. Edited by Lonn - 29 Jun 2018 at 6:53am |
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Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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Tim NH
Orange Level Access Joined: 16 Oct 2012 Location: Lancaster NH Points: 1077 |
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Hi Hurst, sorry about thinking it was the water pump. I didn't want to go out that night and verify that. I have a 7000 maroon belly. I finally had time today to check my compressor. It turns evenly and smoothly, w/ constant pressure all the way around. You can see it is a reman. After like a 1/2 hour w/ the ac running, my feet and legs get cold. So I would say this company has a good product. Tim
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1950 WD 1959 D14 1955 WD45 1976 7000 B 207
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exSW
Orange Level Joined: 21 Jul 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 914 |
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Great thread.Especially since I'm resurrecting the ac in my 7010.
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Hurst
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Midway, Ky Points: 1211 |
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I'll be sure to post how the conversion kit from All State Ag Parts works. I thunk it's the same asthe Hy Capacity kit, so either a Sanden SD7H15 or a Saltec TM16 compressor. It will add low and high pressure cutout switches, as well if there kit is what they said.
Tim, do you have R134a for refrigerant? I ran my last remand on R152A and it would keep it chilly in the cab except from 4ish to 6 when the sun got low and the heat of the day set in, but that was more the sun heating me up than the air getting hot. If I didn't have to drive through barns in the winter, I'd probably tint the windows a little too help with that. Not sure if I'll go the 134 or 152 route this time. I sure did love the lower head pressures of the 152 and have almost enough left over from the last compressor replacement. Hurst |
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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours |
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Brian Jasper co. Ia
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Prairie City Ia Points: 10508 |
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I would go Sanden without question. They are a very popular unit known for efficiency and reliability. Not that it's an issue on a tractor engine, but a Sanden will tolerate up to 6000 sustained RPMs, making them the go to unit for classic car upgrades/retrofits.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Tim NH
Orange Level Access Joined: 16 Oct 2012 Location: Lancaster NH Points: 1077 |
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I will look tomorrow and see what it has. I don't want to guess from the chair. lol Tim
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1950 WD 1959 D14 1955 WD45 1976 7000 B 207
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Tim NH
Orange Level Access Joined: 16 Oct 2012 Location: Lancaster NH Points: 1077 |
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The small dial to the left of the red tape says R 134a. I used a 1 gallon pump sprayer w/ straight water to clean the heater and evaporator cores. I also used 3/4 Pex ball valves in the heater hoses. They fit tight in the hose. I have that sun tint film come down about 12" from the top of each window. Tim
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1950 WD 1959 D14 1955 WD45 1976 7000 B 207
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erikIL
Bronze Level Joined: 15 Apr 2018 Location: Southern IL Points: 18 |
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Thanks for posting the pictures of the cab roof removal- I need to replace the expansion valve on my maroon belly 7000 and I was thinking I'd need to take the cover off the ceiling of the cab to get to it... Removing the cab roof to access the expansion valve looks so much simpler and I like the idea of adding insulation.
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erikIL
Bronze Level Joined: 15 Apr 2018 Location: Southern IL Points: 18 |
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By the way, I just replaced the compressor on my 7000 about a month ago. I got a rebuilt A6 unit from o'riley auto parts for about $156 and it fit perfectly. It even has a warranty. It is the same one that they put on a 78 chevy silverado pickup. Part number is 57094. Everything lined up nice and it works well.
I found a filter/drier at all states ag parts for $19 (fits perfect) and an expansion valve for $23 (I still need to install it since my low pressure is too low and my high pressure is a little too high).
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