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AC 210 |
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BKarpel
Bronze Level Joined: 27 Apr 2012 Location: Collinsville IL Points: 108 |
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Posted: 11 May 2014 at 12:19pm |
I just got a 1971 AC 210 from a estate sale in michigan, that im thinking of making it in to a puller. This 210 is bone stock off of the farm what can be done to make it pull farm stock 8 and 12 mph. The class rules 2800 RPM, stock looking injection pump, turbocharger inlet bore 2.75" maximum. What can be done to the roosa master, injectors, and turbo and will the clutch and input shaft hold up? Thanks for the help, my uncle has a 7040( 220 rear end) running profarm 466CI, A Pump, with water injection just dont know what can be done to get a stock one to run.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20494 |
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Just another stupid Tractor Pulling Club that allows all the drawbars to be the same length and height, tire sizes to all be the same, same turbos, same weight, etc, etc, etc and forces you to stay with a RoosaMaster injection pump.....really ignorant on their part. Switch to an AmBach M100 because the 8000 series had that at least.
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Larry W.
Silver Level Joined: 07 Nov 2010 Location: Luck, WI Points: 280 |
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Honestly the first question really is how much do you want to spend on it? There are so many directions to go but it is often based on your budget. You can turn the screw to your stock pump as far as you can and just be happy going pulling. After that it starts to cost. You say stock appearing pump? That can be a grey area by itself. If it was me, I would push to build an ambac pump for it since that came on later 426's factory, and it gives you the best , chance against the red and green show. Some parts of the country may not go for it, but many will. From there, do you want more cubic inch? Few different ways to do that too, how much do you want to spend and how big do you want it? 466, 504, 540, 585, 620? All have been done, each different settup, price too. This is why the first question. I ask when I take on a build is whats your budget? Once I know that, I go from there.
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O.P.S. Heads
Orange Level Access Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Location: Iowa Points: 574 |
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At what weight the tractor will be at running 8 and 12 MPH would be helpful also. 7500, 18,000 with duals, or somewhere in between. Farm stock can have a wide range of weights. Also is this a pace limited class or no pace / horn on the sled etc.
Edited by O.P.S. Heads - 11 May 2014 at 9:47pm |
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BKarpel
Bronze Level Joined: 27 Apr 2012 Location: Collinsville IL Points: 108 |
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How much cc of fuel can you get from the AmBach M100 pump. Can those pumps run with a 466 John Deere and Case with A pumps? As for as motor work that is no problem dad has a shop and we can do evething is house. Weight class will be from 10,000 to 12500 single tires no cuting cast centers
Edited by BKarpel - 11 May 2014 at 9:57pm |
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O.P.S. Heads
Orange Level Access Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Location: Iowa Points: 574 |
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I have heard the 15 mm head and rotor assy. for an M100 Bosch will produce 550 cc's or more. Big bucks for that set up however. There are pump shops that make 14mm versions also. Again - not cheap. A more common, less expensive, off the shelf, 13mm H and R will produce around 330 cc's. Again - never used one, just numbers I have heard.
I would think with the 2.75 inlet limit it could swallow as much as 550 cc's and make good use of it. Depending on your displacement, You may have to have at least 450 cc's to turn a 2.75 inlet turbo effectively. The "P" pump Deere's will still have more. Funny how that works.... the Deere's having the advantage that is... Edited by O.P.S. Heads - 11 May 2014 at 10:31pm |
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Bled Orange
Bronze Level Joined: 28 Dec 2013 Location: Wheatley, KY Points: 32 |
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to bad everybody doesent live in dr allis world but these stuped little clubs are whatmake up the good grassroot pulling. so that the advice of o.p.s and the other good guys and good hookin
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CA, D14, D17, D17VI, 180, 185, IH 140 and one damn deere
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O.P.S. Heads
Orange Level Access Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Location: Iowa Points: 574 |
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The stock pump rule is ridiculous. I agree with that completely. If a Deere in the same class came from the factory with a P series inline pump, then all of the other competitors should be able to use the same. That is of course if the rule makers want the class to be colorful and competitive.
The "stock appearing pump" rule is made by someone not knowing enough about writing rules in my opinion. |
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Larry W.
Silver Level Joined: 07 Nov 2010 Location: Luck, WI Points: 280 |
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"Stock appearing pump" this is a bull crap rule, I agree. Its also one of those times when you may have to read what the rules don't say. Stock appearing for make and model? Or stock appearing for a farm tractor in general? After all a P or A pump where stock appearing pumps on some tractors, where as a billet Sigma is not right? The m100 Ambac pumps make good fuel, and hold there output at higher rpms then any roosa is going too. A good 13mm ambac will bump 390-400 cc's, a 15mm big nut ambac will get into the upper 500 cc range, but it as mentioned is a very pricey pump, but an ambac is the best shot you have if they're not going to let everyone play on an equal field.
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O.P.S. Heads
Orange Level Access Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Location: Iowa Points: 574 |
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Wouldn't it be fun to be at a rules meeting where they suggest the same turbo, tires, weight, hitch etc. and stock appearing pump and have someone with an AC suggest that everyone run a Roosa Master Pump - because that's what came on an Allis. Then everyone would have the same pump too. Boy would the red and green fans squeal with excitement then.
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4912 |
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With the speed limits you're looking to run in, you'll be fine with the Roosa pump. Just not the stock one. I've been building combinations for just this. It really is fun to hear all the fuel cc numbers thrown around. The more the better isn't necessarily true. Same with the turbo. I'd set you up with something a lot smaller than your limit, and when the other tractors choke, yours will keep going. Bigger isn't always better. Our tractor holds it's own against A pumps, and 13mm m100's. I doubt you'd get to run an M100 unless it was an 80X0.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Larry W.
Silver Level Joined: 07 Nov 2010 Location: Luck, WI Points: 280 |
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Food for thought, whats the price of a top notch roosa fuel system vs a ambac? Then next question, if you choose to step up to a bigger faster class a year or two from now will a roosa keep up at the next level, such as hot farm for example? A bigger m100 pump can always have the fuel output turned down to a lower level, but you can't turn the screw up on a pump that is already at its max. With your class having a 2.75 intake, you can burn a lot of fuel with that much available air. Im simply putting out ideas for consideration, I go through this with anyone I work with, always plan for the future as best you can, it saves you money and headaches in the long run.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20494 |
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And, with an A-C, you're already 40 cubes smaller than Green and Red at a minimum.
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BKarpel
Bronze Level Joined: 27 Apr 2012 Location: Collinsville IL Points: 108 |
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Will a stock clutch and input shaft hold up in these conditions? I know that a AC is out of class by the rules but i just want to add color and be close to the pack.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20494 |
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Input shaft is good up to probably 800 HP or so, depending on your driving habits. New 4 pad clutch disc with a much stronger pressure plate is needed.
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Jordan(OH)
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Celina, OH Points: 1547 |
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Are you saying your uncle runs a 220 with 7040 sheet metal? Or? A 7040 is NOT a 220 rear end. |
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BKarpel
Bronze Level Joined: 27 Apr 2012 Location: Collinsville IL Points: 108 |
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Its a 220 rear end with a tube frame covered in 7040 sheet metal
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