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shameless dude View Drop Down
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    Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 7:26am
I gotta find a way to plug my combine in when it gets cold, I have a genny, but ut's rather bulky and heavy for me to drag around. thinking of plugging the block heater of the combine into a vehicle. the question is....do I need an inverter or a converter?
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 7:29am
I think it's inverter....get one big enough....block heaters can be 1500W....don't fry it
Google is your "friend"


Edited by SteveM C/IL - 31 Oct 2023 at 7:30am
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 8:56am
I think your talking about taking an INVERTER and plugging into your 12v truck and have a 120v output to the block heater... Lets say your Block Heater is 480 watts ( check that).. then you need 120v x 4 amps = 480 watts OUTPUT... The problem is the truck battery is 12 volts or 10 Times SMALLER volts.. so you need 10 Times MORE amps to get the output.... 12v x 40 amps = 480 watts .......... Your battery will not run a half hour if your trying to pull 40 amps out of it....

You would be further ahead to get a SMALL GENERATOR that puts out 1500 watts or so... One of them would be the size of a milk crate and weight 25 pounds.. Put in a gallon of gas and it would run  4 hours..

Here is one generator --- on AMAZON




Here is an inverter.... if your pulling 40 amps out of your battery ( or more) ... you should have the truck motor RUNNING while using the inverter..






Edited by steve(ill) - 31 Oct 2023 at 9:01am
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 9:00am
If you type in INVERTER on line, your going to see some that are up to 6000 watts and they cost less than $100.   .... dont believe that...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 9:03am
OK, dumb question from north of the 49th.....
WHY don't you park combine CLOSE to 120v power ?

My Gleaner A sat in my house driveway for a few months.....
..took wife 8 DAYS to notice it was gone and she'd walk by it 4-8 times a day
3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 9:41am
yea...if your less than 200 ft away, the best idea might be to get a roll of 12-2 Romex and stretch it out to the barn area.... 12 gauge will carry 20 amps, but with that long run you should still be good for enough to run a light bulb and block heater..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Lars(wi) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lars(wi) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 11:08am
Dale, don’t you have an RV with a generator? Get that battle ax(I mean your loving wife) piled in and while you have the combine plugged into the RV warming up the engine, turn on the charms to the Mrs, and get both your and her ‘motor revved up’ and give her good going over in the bedroom for a couple hours.
I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Lars(wi) Lars(wi) wrote:

Dale, don’t you have an RV with a generator? Get that battle ax(I mean your loving wife) piled in and while you have the combine plugged into the RV warming up the engine, turn on the charms to the Mrs, and get both your and her ‘motor revved up’ and give her good going over in the bedroom for a couple hours.


Hmmm.....maybe we should move far enough north to need block heaters
"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 12:30pm
Could load the generator on your truck and drive to it and do the job. Use a loader to lift the generator up on the truck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JC-WI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 12:44pm
I would suggest ol' shameless should turn off that snow and cold maker machine and let the climate warm up... or park his combine by an electrical plug in.
  Thendrix, if you need block heaters, you moved to far north... cold of winter is bad enough where you might need them heaters.
 
He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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shameless dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 3:06pm
the closest I can park the combine to 120V power is about 300 ft. I don't think there would be much power left at the end of the cord to power much. a tractor is about all I have room for any closer...not a combine with a 6 row head. I'm pretty sure the block heater on it would be at least 1500 watts, that's what all my diesel tractors have on them. Thanks ya'll, I always have trouble figgering out the amps/watts/volts...well not so much on volts! yes...I was figgering on using my burb or truck engine to power the inverter off the battery...it would also be handy for powering other things too! as for the camper with the 7000 watts genny, it hasn't run for about 8-9 years...don't have the time to mess with that right now. plus it's hooked in to about 9000 miles of wiring in that motorhome! So I should get at least a 2000 watts inverter then? Or if I can get a small genny like mentioned above with at least that much output? the genny I do have is really big and heavy, to much to move around. Thanks for ya'lls info!  
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shameless dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 3:14pm
oh...and if I do buy a small genny, do I hafta make sure it has an invertor built in? seems to me that the genny itself would do the trick?
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KJCHRIS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KJCHRIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 3:56pm
Shameless, anyone near you have a cart that go behind a lawnmower?
 Put generator in cart and take it to combine, hide it so can't be seen from the road.. 
AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 4:00pm
A 2500 watt generator would be great..... I have a small box welder that i mounted on a 2 wheel dolly cart.. I use that to move the welder ( 30 pounds) so i dont have to carry it.  Generator will put out 120v and have a couple plugs... Nothing else needed..

If you get an inverter and plug into the truck, the truck has to be RUNNING... Seems like a lot of waste ??
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 4:07pm
If you really need 1500 watts, i would buy a 2500 watt generator... A 1500 watt unit would PEAK at 1500, but put out 1000 - 1200 constant..

A 2500 watt unit will be good for 1800 constant... But this will weight about 42 pounds as it is a little bigger.. Get a 2 wheel hand cart / dolly and mount to that.


Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 4:34pm
Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KJCHRIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2023 at 9:05pm
Says he's got a genny, just needs a way to take it to the combine. 
 I'd Find a cart/ 2 wheel trailer & put genny in cart & take it to combine.
  To use hook extension cord from genny to block heater & start genny, go back to house drink a few cups of coffee and it'll be ready to run. 
AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2023 at 12:48am
Using an inverter to drive a block heater is akin to using a piece of spaghetti to drive a railroad spike...

Using a generic portable 1500w generator to drive a 1200w block heater is pushing your luck... I wouldn't go any smaller than 3500W, just so you don't work the poor thing to death, because the block heater is a purely resistive load- the hardest 'pull' you can put on a generator.

As for getting it moved around, a portable generator is an excellent thing to have on either a cart, or a pallet you can lock into the bed of your pickup truck, or on a covered skid with 3-point quick-attach that you can just hook and go...

but I would just go with 300ft of 10-ga extension cord, and when next spring comes around, rent a trencher, drop in some conduit, and pull a power feeder out there, put up a yard light on a pole, and put an outlet in a weather-enclosure on it, just for that purpose...


Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr p Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2023 at 6:28am
Dave, just giving you a head's up, when you die we are going to put your brain in one of those glass containers they have on futurama.

Edited by dr p - 01 Nov 2023 at 6:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote klinemar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2023 at 6:35am
I have a 20kw Winpower PTO Generator on a 2 wheel trailer that I have attached my welder to for in field repairs. Now some of you might think this is overkill for Shameless, but in my case it's paid for! There used to be a company that sold belt driven Generators for pickups that provided 115 volt power. On the humorous side Shameless, you could always buy a new Ford F150 Hybrid that they advertised as powering your house during power outages! I'm sure that would be expensive!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2023 at 6:39am
While I don't usually work with immersion heaters as a normal rule, I do carry a small 3kw inverter type generator in the back of my pickup often. It is a "Champion" brand with remote start and will fire off from 300' distance repeatedly. I've had this thing five full years now and with exception of starting batteries, it's been dead reliable. Only thing it doesn't have is 240 VAC output but I have other gensets for that duty. This thing is quiet enough to converse of the top of it also and marketed for the RV crowds.
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2023 at 12:31pm
long term i like the extentioin cord idea... but 1500 watts is 13 amps... at 300 ft  you need to use an 8-3 gauge wire ... anything smaller and your going to loose your 120v supply down to 110 volts. .......... but 300 ft of 3 lead 8 gauge wire is going to cost you several hundred dollars .... unless you can get an old 6 gauge service entrance wire from the power company left overs.

Edited by steve(ill) - 01 Nov 2023 at 12:38pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2023 at 11:21pm
o-k ya'll....I bought a 2000 W genny today, it's book says it'll go continuous at 1800 watts running if it has too. I haven't read the whole book on it yet, prolly do that tomarrow night. it weights 47 lbs and will run on 87% gas. read lots of reveiws on it and it's a 5 star rating for several years now and says it's quiet running. used mostly for camping and tailgating. has lots of do dads on it. says it does have to be grounded in the ground while running. guess i'll hafta make up a cord for that and add a metal stake. it's a Preditor...first generation Honda. just by luck, it was on it's last day of a sale price...was a GOOD sale price too! it also stated it'll run 12 hours on just a little over a gallon of gas. we'll see! I think it'll be handy doing other applications around the farm too. hope so. as for putting a pole out with an electric box on it, gotta save the money on that as we want to build a new place away from this one and I don't wanna spend extra money on upgrading this place because of that. I used to run a cord out to my GMC diesel in winter, sometimes it would trip a breaker and I wouldn't know it til AM, I pretty sure running a 300 ft cord to the combine would also trip it. i'd be running back and forth resetting the breaker all the time, I don't climb stairs real well anymore! SUCKS to get old! I'm itching to use the new to me corn head I just bought for my combine. i'm thinking i'll be out in the cold combining this year....PffffffffT! hope the heater works in the cab, have never had to use it yet! I can say one thing...save your money and gits all your big chit done while yer young...cuz when you gits old...you gotta pay someone to do it for you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2023 at 12:51am
Originally posted by dr p dr p wrote:

Dave, just giving you a head's up, when you die we are going to put your brain in one of those glass containers they have on futurama.


LOL

"John Prine:  Please don't bury me, in that cold, cold ground..."

I'll draw a diagram of where to hook up all the wires, Doc... connect the output to my stage amp, and the ears to my microphone... ;-)

So there's some likely misnomers goin' on here, so just to clarify:

When you take a 300ft piece of 10awg 120v extension cord, and connect it to a 750w block heater, you have:

10AWG = 0.00109 ohms per foot, or 0.109 ohms per 100, or 0.327 ohms per 300ft, on ONE wire.  There's same on the OTHER, so for a round-trip, that's 0.654 ohms.

At 120v, 0.654 ohms constitutes a dead-short load current limit of 183 amps, for 22.018 kw.

Since your circuit breaker will either be a 15A or 20A service, the 0.654 ohms is not a significant loss.

Let's say you're using a 750w block heater.  That's 120v at 750w, which means the heater's resistance is 19.2 ohms, and the current flow to feed it is 6.25 Amperes.

So take that 19.2 ohms, and add it to the 0.654 ohms in your extension cord, and you'll have 19.845 ohms, which at 120v at the RECEPTACLE, you'll have a total current flow of 6.0468 amperes, and a total circuit power of 725.62ish watts.

you've effectively lost 750-725.62 = 24.38 watts.

But now you ask... But Dave... Where did those 24.38 watts go?

They were dissipated out the extension cord as heat.

Of your 600ft run (out and back), the wire's resistance dissipated that 24.38w at a distribution of 600/24.38 = 24.61 FEET PER WATT... and since they're side by side in the extension cord, that's 1 watt of heat disspated every 12.30 feet.

Now, a watt is a watt... and if you have 1 watt every 12 feet, that's 3.412 BTU (British Thermal Units) every 12 feet... or 1 BTU every 3.5 INCHES.

One BTU is the amount of energy it takes to raise ONE POUND of water (at room temp, that one gallon is 8.33lbs, so you're talkin' about a pint (that's 1.04lbs per pint)...

So 3.5 inches of wire, at that 750W heater's running load, will warm a pint of water one degree F...  In one hour.

By comparison, if you PEE on that wire, you'll raise it's temperature about 30 degrees in 30 seconds.

So in a practical sense, there's no incredible energy loss here.

Now if we do same for a 1500w heater, you'll see:

1500w @120v = 9.6 ohms and 12.5A
Wire's 0.654 ohms means 10.254 ohms total...
Heating circuit at 120v 10.254 ohms means you're limited at
120v, 11.70A, 1404.33 watts.
1500w - 1404.33 = 95.67w lost.
Distributed over 300ft (600 total loop) that's 0.318w per foot, or 1w every 3 feet or so.
If you do the BTU calculation, you'll see that all this loss brought up the wire heat by a factor of three...

But peeing on the wire makes it much much hotter.

Now for the kicker:  Adding lots of extension cord won't cause the breaker to trip...  Breakers trip from EXCESS current.  Adding an extension cord LIMITS current.

The reason why breakers trip, is because there's either a SHORT in the wiring (something damaged), or there's a bad connection on the wire(s) going to the breaker, causing THEM to disspiate heat (which then percolates into the breaker and causes it's thermal element to trip).

So the fright about running a long extension cord is for naught, unless you errantly run over it with lawn mower, snow thrower, or crush it with the tractor.

Using old overhead service entrance as the feeder for a far-reaching pole is an excellent idea, particularly if the SE wire is significantly LARGER than your supply breaker's trip point... I've done just this, as I had a significant amount of leftover SE wire after putting all my building service lines in underground conduit.  I don't like trees, ice, wind, or tall machines tearing down overhead wires, so they're all in conduit, down 30 inches below my feet.



Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2023 at 6:03am
I'll have to check ours about the ground wire but we've been using a Honda 2200 watt suitcase style for 3 years now. It rides in the truck full time and use it for block heaters, air compressor(also in the truck full time), portable welder, power tools, lighting.......
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