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victoryallis 
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Location: Ludington mi
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 Topic: 8030 pulling injector pump and injectors
Posted: 15 Dec 2020 at 8:03pm |
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I need to pull my pump and would like to have injectors checked. I’ve always had someone else pull pumps for me. I decided I’m doing it myself this time any pointers? Are timing marks obvious?
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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SteveM C/IL
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Location: Shelbyville IL
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Posted: 15 Dec 2020 at 8:07pm |
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I'd say "read the manual" but don't sound like you have one.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 15 Dec 2020 at 8:57pm |
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Line up the timing marks on the crank pulley at 19 degrees BTDC, rotating the engine the way it normally rotates. It will be on #1 or #6. When you take it to your pump man, tell him to check to see if it is on #1 or #6 and to return it to you the same way. Injectors install with the return fittings towards the valve cover, not the other way around. Tell them to set the new injector pressures at 3600 psi, not 4200 psi spec. New injector tips. Don't waste time doing anything else...new tips. May need a torch (for some heat)and lots of penetrating oil on the injector line nuts at the pump. DON"T twist the lines !!
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 16 Dec 2020 at 7:29am |
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Dr gives great advice as always! Once pump is off, don't turn the engine. It's easy to find #1 TDC again with injectors still out, but why make more work for yourself. Be sure the pointer on pump is lined up before removal, it is right on the pump hub.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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victoryallis
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Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 8:21pm |
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Am I correct in understanding that if I line up the marks and the pump guy returns it in the same position I’m ok as long as I don’t turn the motor while pump is off? Buddy tells me #1 must be TDC.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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MACK
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Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 8:54pm |
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Put whiteout on hub timing mark before installing pump. Makes it a lot easier to see . MACK
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 9:18pm |
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Since you're pulling injectors,get them out and you can turn engine easier and tell when it comes up on #1 if you think it matters. Doc explained it pretty well but that requires you communicating to rebuilder to check which # is up.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 6:22am |
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When the crank pulley is at 19 degrees BTDC is might be on #1, or it might be on #6. There is no need to worry and fuss and remove the valve cover, just tell your pump guy to check to see which cylinder the removed pump is timed to. If he says #6, then you can just turn the engine one more revolution to be on #1. Or he can leave the repaired pump set on #6 so you do nothing. The AmBach pump head turns half the speed of the drive gear. The drive gear turns crankshaft speed, unlike the RoosaMaster that turns half crank speed.
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 7:33am |
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When those pumps come in to my shop, I first determine if it was removed on #1 or #6 and note it. If no other work is being done, I put it back as I find it 1 or 6. If it's getting rebuilt/other work etc, I put it on #1.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Steve Bright
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 7:59am |
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What is the cost to rebuild an 8070 pump? Ball park figure.
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Kevin in WA
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 10:19am |
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All you have to do to tell if its on 1 or 6 is remove the little cover just below the head of the pump and if the mark on the rotor is visible toward the front of the opening it is on 1, if not rotate engine one more turn and it will be there.
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victoryallis
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 3:25pm |
 Steve Bright wrote:
What is the cost to rebuild an 8070 pump? Ball park figure. |
Last one I had done was $850 and it took them two tries to get it to stop leaking.
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8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 4:06pm |
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They haven't been $850 in my shop for a long time. Dang Ambac keeps raising their parts prices like crazy, or they simply quit making the parts! Pretty typical 1200-1500 anymore.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Kevin in WA
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 5:55pm |
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I personally wont spend a dime on another AMBAC rebuild, I will convert to an A series inline any day, once you drive an 8000 with an inline you wont go back. precise governor control, long life and no annoying rattle at an idle.
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wekracer
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 6:13pm |
Kevin in WA wrote:
I personally wont spend a dime on another AMBAC rebuild, I will convert to an A series inline any day, once you drive an 8000 with an inline you wont go back. precise governor control, long life and no annoying rattle at an idle. |
Is there a good way to do that? I looked into it when I rebuilt the 8050 but that was almost 10 years ago
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Kevin in WA
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 7:18pm |
Yes, but it does require removal of the front cover to change the idler gear to the one that is used for the Roosa Master, the inline runs half engine speed just like the Roosa. I bought my pump, lines and adapter from Reliance Works in Wisconsin. I don't have there number off hand but they have a website. I will try to post a link.
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Kevin in WA
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 7:19pm |
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 18 Dec 2020 at 10:05pm |
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x2 what Kevin says....get a pump and all from them. You won't regret it. Mine was done by a guy involved in building pulling engines. He made the adapter and drive hub,built the pump and bent the lines. Reliance would have not cost any more and could have been done much sooner and I think is a little "cleaner".
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DougG
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Posted: 19 Dec 2020 at 8:43am |
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They sure seem to do good work
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 19 Dec 2020 at 10:30am |
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I've been involved with a couple of Reliance Works (KCGrain here) A pump swaps. It always seemed like there was some odd issue, one surged too much on the pto at 1800 rpm, one was hard starting. I have a pulling A pump on my 210 and it is a nice fit. But swapping an A pump on those M100 equipped tractors isn't something I've had the time to engineer all the quirks out yet. I think using a particuler core from a JD application, and then giving it a rebuild may get the results we need. In the past it's always been "just recalibrate a new old stock pump" to keep the price down. I feel if we perfected this we'd be busy as heck! Problem is, I already am lol!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 19 Dec 2020 at 2:34pm |
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Ed. Did you have to remove the oil cooler on the 210? Doesn't look like enough room on my 220. Tight enough fit on the 8070. Been a while since I looked but I think some creative engineering could remote mount the oil cooler for farm use but for all the hassle the ole Roosa does good enough.
Edited by SteveM C/IL - 19 Dec 2020 at 2:37pm
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 19 Dec 2020 at 2:59pm |
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I have a later style block in my 210, the inline pumps don't fit the early blocks without a lot of grinding and removing the cooler, unless you use a Simms which is an odd duck for an AC. I didn't use an adapter either, which keeps mine further forward, but did require me to notch the top of the front cover/plate to clear the rack cap.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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