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The Forum | Parts and Services | Unofficial Allis Store | Tractor Shows | Serial Numbers | History |
7060 questions |
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plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3216 |
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There actually is a section covering the luber finer. Would the the cam lift specs be the same for a 7060 and 7045? |
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Lynn Marshall ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Dana, Iowa Points: 2162 |
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To my knowledge, the cams were all the same from the 7030 to 7080. Dr.Allis might have more information about that.
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8075 |
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Would have to look in books again but I think the lift and timing specs are the same on 220 VS 8070. Bolt added in nose at some point between the 2 so not the "same" cam.
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plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3216 |
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Since MrSnerdly asked, here's a shot of the dampener
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MrSnerdly ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 11 Jan 2024 Location: fairbury ne Points: 32 |
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I would definitely replace it it it were mine. I used to think that it was foolish but after selling the 4640 to the guys that rent most of my ground had the crank break, I think it is a wise investment.
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19716 |
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I would bet the Deere had a "fluid/viscous" damper and that is what they are known for. It is recommended to replace them at a certain hour interval to prevent crankshaft breakage. That 7060 damper is OK fine because it hasn't slipped/moved and is of the rubber type design, not the silicone fluid, which hardens or leaks out of the damper shell, making the damper useless and breaking crankshafts.
Edited by DrAllis - 24 Feb 2024 at 7:40am |
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Acguywill ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 15 Jan 2024 Location: Vauxhall ab Can Points: 57 |
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So are there any symptoms of a bad dampner other than an eventual broken crank? Our 8010 is closing in on 18k hours and still has the original one. Should I change it just because? It looks fine.
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19716 |
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When rubber dampers fail, they generally shift position and the fan belts get out of alignment. Actual "service life" is related to how many hrs and at what percentage of rated load the engine produces. An engine used all the time at full throttle/100% work load would have less hours of service life on the damper. An engine used for lighter/slower speed work would have a damper that lasts longer. It's up to you. Belts that are still in alignment means the rubber hasn't allowed things to shift just yet.
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tbran ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Paris Tn Points: 3260 |
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Unfortunately the camshaft from the first NA D21 to the Last R6 Gleaner and 4W220 were the same part #74029000 - NOW the first 3500's had a gear to drive the oil pump - that part is NLA - AC engines guys never changed the cams from non- turbo to turbo engines. Only one time in the D262 D19s - they changed the lobe to hold the intake open longer - then they would not start (even worse than normal) and they changed the cams on the first ones back to std. Every engine designer knows the cam is the heart of the engine. We and many others found this out in pulling as well. One thing I mispoke about - there was a change in cam profile many decads ago to incorporate a 'quieting ramp' for some reason - valve seating speed was what I was told - it did not affect cam lift duration overlap or timing. Many have used offset keys to adjust timing. We know that cam timing affects starting ability as well. Random thoughts in answer to a question above.
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Lynn Marshall ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Dana, Iowa Points: 2162 |
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There's nothing wrong with the pulley in the picture, as far as I'm concerned. The inner part of the pulley is secured with a key on a tapered shaft with a large bolt and washer. Really not much to go wrong there. The outer part can slide in or out,off of the rubber ring. Moving out can cause belts to come off. Moving in is more common and it can eventually start rubbing on the aluminum timing gear cover, creating a leak. All of pulleys,if original, are bound to have that weather cracking look in the rubber ring.
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19716 |
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As with anything 40+ years old and 10K+ hrs on it, I would always keep a watchful eye on the damper and belt alignment. At least every oil change take a look, or daily if you're more inclined. I've seen them fail with half those hrs of service life, so you never know. But to just replace it because it's old ain't a good reason in my pocketbook.
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plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3216 |
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Understood, thanks for the replies
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8070nc ![]() Silver Level Access ![]() Joined: 21 Mar 2019 Location: North Carolina Points: 421 |
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I had a viscous damper on a 8070 go bad. Made it sound like it had a rod knock. Checked the bearings and they were fine. After much investigation figured out it was the damper. Where im going with this is if viscous fluid in a sealed case can go bad why wont 40 year rubber get hard and cause that style damper to not work right
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1984 80780
1957 D14 DES 300 with 25000 engine 616 tractor |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19716 |
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I like to diagnose as accurately as possible. I don't throw parts at a problem unless there is no other choice and even then, past experience plays a role. If I have a 426 with a viscous damper throwing belts (A/C or fan belts) OR breaking A/C compressor or alternator brackets/mounts OR making a serious timing gear train rattle at approx 2500 RPM's, I KNOW there is a defective viscous damper!!! Replacement MAY prevent the breaking a crankshaft, if it hasn't been bad for too long. Until I have a rubber type damper shift position OR hear timing gear train noise or throwing belts and breaking brackets, I have no reason to replace one, from past experience. In fact, I can't ever remember (45 years) of having broken brackets, thrown belts or timing gear noise on ANY rubber damper to date that had not shifted position. You are certainly free to do whatever you think is right.
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MrSnerdly ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 11 Jan 2024 Location: fairbury ne Points: 32 |
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Maybe they don't need to be replaced but they aren't terribly expensive. I think a 4640 is less than $200. It would be worth it to me for piece of mind.
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bigal121892 ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Location: Nebraska Points: 760 |
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Had a 7040 where the damper pulley moved in towards the engine on the rubber, the pulley rubbed a hole in the timing cover.
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19716 |
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Approx $600 - $650 bucks for rubber. Fluid is more.
Edited by DrAllis - 25 Feb 2024 at 8:16pm |
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MrSnerdly ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 11 Jan 2024 Location: fairbury ne Points: 32 |
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That's way more than a JD. $157 from TractorpartsASAP, $269 from Deere. I bet the cheap one is as good as the JD. JD always screws you on parts. I hate their dealers.
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Lynn Marshall ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Dana, Iowa Points: 2162 |
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Is anyone currently rebuilding those pulleys? Didn't the guy in Oregon retire??
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19716 |
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He did. A & I is where I got one last for that $650 number about 2 yrs ago.
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IBWD MIke ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Apr 2012 Location: Newton Ia. Points: 3522 |
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Had to put one on a 436 IH in a 1460 combine three or four years ago. Want to say it was around $450 at that time. Case IH part from the local dealer.
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Ray54 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4385 |
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Something one needs to keep an eye on. Saw that happen to 75 MH combine in the summer of 79.
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Acguywill ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 15 Jan 2024 Location: Vauxhall ab Can Points: 57 |
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Well this has me thinking that maybe the dampner on the 8010 is bad. It has always been a rattling terrible sounding engine from new so I never considered that the dampner could be the cause. New ones are available from agco for $1600 but only three and when they are gone they will no longer be available. I would think if it was bad from the start the crank would have been toast long ago.
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MrSnerdly ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 11 Jan 2024 Location: fairbury ne Points: 32 |
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$1600 seems outrageous. From TractorpartsASAP they are $170 or so for a 4640. Same damper fits a multitude of JD models. Have you checked with ASAP?
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ryan(IN) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Bluffton,IN Points: 748 |
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Agco parts at its finest. Increase the price to artificially destroy demand and then discontinue because there was no demand for the part. |
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ryan
1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62 |
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SLee(IA) ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Polk City, Iowa Points: 252 |
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ASAP website shows a new 8010 dampner for $598.
Steve |
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plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3216 |
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I set up the dial indicator with a push rod over each cam lobe. In the I&T manual intake lift is .318" and exhaust is .285". As measured, the best intake is .298 and worst at .289. Exhaust comes in at .279 and lowest at .218. Rather disappointed to see these numbers
I have the sleeve bores cleaned and have the new ones in for dry fit checking stand out. Looks good in area |
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Lynn Marshall ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Dana, Iowa Points: 2162 |
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I can't recall ever changing a cam in an Allis engine of any size except for the rare instance of the nose breaking off on a couple of 190s. They have such a good success rate,that I never even bothered to check them. I do have a couple of used take outs from bad engines if interested. Central Iowa location. I don't know their condition. Obviously, it's a fair bit more work to change one,especially in frame.
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AC7060IL ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Location: central IL Points: 3224 |
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Wondering, do any of the worn cam lobes coincide with problem cylinders #4 sleeve? Broken rings? Scored piston? etc..? |
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plummerscarin ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 22 Jun 2015 Location: ia Points: 3216 |
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Not sure of a rhyme or reason. #2 compression ring broken on every cylinder plus some others. Lowest exhaust lift is cylinder 6 then 5 while lowest intake is cylinder 5 while all the rest are mid to high 290s. I've received a few comments saying if it ran good before I tore it down, it should run fine after the OH is complete. Provided I do my job right. Sometimes not knowing is a good thing.
Edited by plummerscarin - 07 Mar 2024 at 6:34pm |
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