| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
rmdiesel91 
Silver Level
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Location: WI
Points: 53
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: 426 in a 185?
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 7:42pm |
|
Has anyone put a 426 in a 185? I have a 185 with shot sleeves and I talked to our local machine shop who said they have heard of these 426 motors replacing 301s. I really want to do this. Just wondering if anyone on here has done it. I would like to start pulling also.
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Claus
Orange Level
Joined: 09 Dec 2009
Location: Hebron In
Points: 1152
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 7:44pm |
|
I have a feeling you will get to know your transmission and finals very well.
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20976
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 7:59pm |
|
Why don't you start by antique pulling for a couple of years first and get to understand the sport before you get into the more expensive diesel tractor pulling.
|
|
rmdiesel91
Silver Level
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Location: WI
Points: 53
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 8:49pm |
|
I would but this what i have. The motor in it needs a complete rebuild which will cost about the same as the running 426 motors i found for sale. I kinda want to do something different and i have heard good things about the 426. I know that there will be limitations with the drivetrain but i just want to get a running motor in the tractor for now. Along with the motor I would upgrade the clutch since the existing one is shot. I would build up the rear end and gear train eventually before i pull. Im not in a big rush. I have pulled before ( i should have mentioned that) but I wanna get into a more competitive class . I would have pulled this tractor stock but since the motor just blew its gotta come out anyway and i would rather but the 426 in now since it needs a motor. If it was running I would definetly do exactly what your suggesting.
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20976
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 8:56pm |
|
Just exactly where do you think anyone will let you pull it with a different engine than stock??? It would/should be considered a "homemade" tractor.
|
|
CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: NW Illinois
Points: 22823
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:00pm |
|
So what you are saying is you would rather put some unknown used motor in your working tractor rather than a (new) fresh rebuilt.
|
|
|
|
smuggler
Silver Level
Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Location: western ny
Points: 325
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:01pm |
|
In the Nathional tractor pullers assc. NTPA he can pull it.
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20976
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:04pm |
|
You bet !!! a GREAT place to start pulling in the NTPA !!! GOOD luck with that !!!
|
|
Brian Jasper co. Ia
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Prairie City Ia
Points: 10508
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:04pm |
|
I'm with the Doc on this. You might want to find out for sure if the 426 swap is allowed. Most clubs here would say no way, got to have the original block.
|
|
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
|
|
rmdiesel91
Silver Level
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Location: WI
Points: 53
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:08pm |
|
Its just an idea im just asking if anyone has done it. I would like to pull it but it would have to be in a modified class with a different motor. Nothing for sure right now just throwing around ideas and i would eventually rebuild the 426 but getting a running motor for now to get the tractor moving would allow me to get it out of the shop for now instead of tearing into a motor. I just dont want to pull a motor out right now and leave for college in fall with a tractor in a million pieces
|
|
smuggler
Silver Level
Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Location: western ny
Points: 325
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:11pm |
|
lol dr allis. But its sadly true the NTPA passed a rule for supers and pros can run any block with any sheet metal. ex. 466 international in a john deere or a john deere 466 in an allis what ever you want its ok. By the way I think it was 1 of the worst rules ever passed
|
|
rmdiesel91
Silver Level
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Location: WI
Points: 53
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:12pm |
i agree with you guys different brands swapping is dumb. i was thinking an allis 426 tho not any other brand but allis.
|
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Points: 20976
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:14pm |
|
It can and HAS been done. I also could put a "426" in a D17 if I wanted to. You haven't got any idea how much work (modifying) would have to be done to accomplish it. You could overhaul three 301's for the time it would take to stick a 426 in a 185 chassis.
|
|
rmdiesel91
Silver Level
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Location: WI
Points: 53
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:17pm |
|
I know its not gonna "bolt right up". I am just exploring different ways to take this. Its gonna be a long project no matter what i do with it.
|
|
Claus
Orange Level
Joined: 09 Dec 2009
Location: Hebron In
Points: 1152
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:19pm |
|
If your not up to rebuilding the 301 right now why not buy a running 301 out of a combine and get it up and running.
|
|
Charlie175
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Shenandoah, VA
Points: 6358
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:22pm |
|
That 301 should put out plenty of power for pulling. Turbo it up.
|
|
Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
|
|
rmdiesel91
Silver Level
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Location: WI
Points: 53
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:26pm |
Thats a good idea. I am just thinking of doing something different with the different allis motor. I can rebuild the motor in it i just wouldnt have time before leaving for school. I found these 426 motors and heard good things so i figured id try something different. But it all depends too on what my local pulling clubs rules are on engines. I believe around here we have a class where the cubic inches have to be under a set number but i didnt recall seeing a limit on if the motor was stock or not just the same brand.
|
|
rmdiesel91
Silver Level
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Location: WI
Points: 53
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:29pm |
However i am liking the idea of turboing and intercooling a 301 if i did rebuild the existing motor. Everyone has helped a lot. Im just exploring all my options.
|
|
Jordan(OH)
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Celina, OH
Points: 1547
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:39pm |
|
Find one in a junk combine with turbo and intercooler, can get 180-200 HP out of it and still use it.
|
|
rmdiesel91
Silver Level
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Location: WI
Points: 53
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 9:48pm |
Are you saying 180 -200 out of a heavily modded 301? Thats impressive. I just dont see many 301's pulling in my area.
|
|
rmdiesel91
Silver Level
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Location: WI
Points: 53
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 10:12pm |
My concern with sticking another 301 in is that everyone in my area i have talked to has said 301s are prone to wrecking sleeves. In fact the machine shop i was at today had a 301 in for shot sleeves. I have not heard one bad thing about the 426 allis motor. So you are saying you know someone that has put a 426 in a 185?
|
|
Hurst
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Midway, Ky
Points: 1213
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 10:37pm |
|
The sleeve problem can be helped, possibly eliminated by keeping proper SCA levels in the antifreeze or installing a self releasing SCA water filter to the system. The biggest problem will be fixing any pitting in the lower bore of the block where the sleeves' orings seat.
Hurst
|
|
1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours
|
|
Lanny TN
Bronze Level
Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Location: Mid Tennessee
Points: 2
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 10:39pm |
If you are still interested in this expensive endeavor contact Keith Haney in Athens, Alabama. Keith, his Dad Shirley, and now Keith's son have pulled a 180 AC "JR" in the Light Super Stock Class for many years, the last several years with a 426. You can contact Keith through the Mid-South Pullers Association Forum.
Have a great day! Lanny
|
|
rmdiesel91
Silver Level
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Location: WI
Points: 53
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 10:42pm |
|
Thanks a lot. I will definetly contact him and see if its worth it for me.
|
|
Jordan(OH)
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Celina, OH
Points: 1547
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 2:28pm |
 rmdiesel91 wrote:
Are you saying 180 -200 out of a heavily modded 301? Thats impressive. I just dont see many 301's pulling in my area. |
No, not even close to heavily modded. Compounds turbos and fire ringed heads is what I'd call heavily modded.
|
|
Claus
Orange Level
Joined: 09 Dec 2009
Location: Hebron In
Points: 1152
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 2:37pm |
|
Check Ron MI's for sale add below, He is selling a 301 with turbo and intercooler. Perfect project for your 185.
|
|
rmdiesel91
Silver Level
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Location: WI
Points: 53
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 4:10pm |
|
Thanks, It definetly gives me a few ideas.
|
|
rmdiesel91
Silver Level
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Location: WI
Points: 53
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 Jul 2010 at 4:51pm |
|
I would still love to hear from someone who has put a 426 in a 185.
|
|
Gary(WI)
Orange Level
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Location: WI
Points: 1001
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Jul 2010 at 8:17pm |
|
We bought a pulling engine one time out of Missouri a 426 that was in a180 used to have flywheel and everything flywheel is gone might still has adapter plate though let me look Gary Roidt
|
|
rmdiesel91
Silver Level
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Location: WI
Points: 53
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Sep 2010 at 8:57pm |
|
So I split my tractor and got the engine out. I just got it down to bare block and in the process we found leaking around the sleeves o-rings. Also in the #6 cylinder I found etching and scoring in the sleeve and on the piston . My guess is that cylinder was running hot from a bad injector which my machine shop agreed on. Anyone else had this problem? It also looks like there is pitting or worm holes in the block where the bad sleeves were. Its too hard to tell so i guess ill have to see what the shop comes up with. Everything else with the motor looks good and if the block is good im gonna stick with it for now to do an overhaul on it so it can plow some snow for my dad this winter. However, I am still in the market for a pulling engine and was wondering what a decent 301 combine engine (full engine, turbo, etc) is worth. Our local tractor salvage yard has one but id like to shop around for a better price. They wanted about 2200 or 2300 for an engine that looked clean but unknown hours. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
|
|
