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Macon Rounds 
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 Topic: 28 ver's 38 why did Allis disadvantage the selves
Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 4:07pm |
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It is a well know engineering fact that large dia rear tires out perform smaller diameter rear tires in almost all farming situations. More especially in plowing and tillage applications.
But even hay operations on rough ground have benefits from the larger dia tires that roll more easily and smother across holes and ditches.
Anyone know why Allis Choose 28 rears as thier standard rear tire ?
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CrestonM
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 5:01pm |
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I've wondered that a lot myself.
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 5:01pm |
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Gearing that they already had ,worked best .?
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 5:07pm |
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Probably because they were better than the 24's everything had before that. Big engineering changes would have to be made to go to a much larger diameter.
Can't say why they used 24's on early models.
Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 08 Jun 2018 at 5:08pm
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Lonn
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 5:30pm |
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The short fat tires Allis was using put more square inches of rubber on the ground than the taller thinner tires from competitive tractors at the time. Later on, those M Farmall and A John Deere owners could easily go to the same width as Allis owners but it was much more expensive for Allis owners to go to a taller tire and it would mess up the gearing. 12.4 x 36 or 38 was pretty common on an M or A while a WD ran ran 13.6 x 28 and 45's ran 14.9 x 28. The Allis has more square inches on the ground at those sizes.
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JoeO(CMO)
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 5:30pm |
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Most customers didn't have the need for larger, more expensive tire for daily use, but larger were available if desired.
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Gary Burnett
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 7:11pm |
Wondered why AC didn't put the Buda 273 in their WD45 diesel frame and equip it with 30" rear tires major upgrade at very little cost to them at the time.
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Calvin Schmidt
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 7:19pm |
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I changed my D-17 IV diesel from 16.9 x 28 to 14.9 x 38. That's the way they all should have left the factory.
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Tracy Martin TN
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 7:41pm |
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Final drives was one of the reasons.
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WF owner
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 8:34pm |
38's were an option on many tractors, but I suspect the dealers didn't order them since so many tractors were sold by price. The 180 was available with manual or hydraulic PTO. Luckily, our local dealer only ordered them with the hydraulic PTO, but there are some out there with manual PTO. I suspect it was the same reasoning. $$$
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Allis in farmland
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 9:20pm |
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I always thought D21s with 18.4×34's looked anemic. I think 190xt's look good with 38's then you see a big D21 with 34 inch rubber?? 😥 Disclaimer: I have a D17 with 18.4×30's and 185 with 18.4x34's. Not a fan of the short tires where the tractor is always squatting
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wfmurray
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Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 9:27pm |
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Wonder why odd size rims on G and D14.Seems they enginered the gearing and then put tires on to give ground speed.Did not consider they were odd balls and be more expensive to replace.
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Allis dave
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Posted: 09 Jun 2018 at 8:07am |
At the time there were still tractors with 28" tires. All those little Ford's had 28" tires so 28" wasn't too uncommon. When the WC's and WD's were engineered it wasn't strange at all.
I always forget as was pointed out that all those IH and JD's didn't come from the factory with 15.5x38 tires on them. Most all the ones you see now are on either a widened rim or a new wide rim.
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TramwayGuy
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Posted: 09 Jun 2018 at 4:59pm |
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Three reasons; cost, cost, and cost.
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JayIN
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Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 7:18am |
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Calvin, can you get a pic of that 17 with the 38 rubber? Never seen that! Sounds interesting.....
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sometimes I walk out to my shop and look around and think "Who's the idiot that owns this place?"
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DougG
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Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 1:01pm |
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I'm with Allis in Farmland on the tractors squatting,,, that is just not right to have your front higher than the back ,,,, how would this make sence?
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Calvin Schmidt
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Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 4:20pm |
 D17 IV D at work 14.9 x 38" rears Factory option was 13.6 x 38" with tall front spindles
Edited by Calvin Schmidt - 10 Jun 2018 at 4:22pm
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Rayhowling
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Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 4:41pm |
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I put 16.9X34 on my 180D and it makes it nice to handle. I have a 200 gallon milk tank mounted on a 3 pt. hitch deck for gathering sap when we gather for making maple syrup. I need about 800 lbs. of weight on the front end to handle the tank on the back. The bigger tires make it handle the rougher terrain in the bush.
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DMiller
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Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 5:10pm |
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I would love to find a set of 5 rail power adjust rims for 30" tires and centers to fit my 180D, would make it less a pain for finding rubber CHEAPER.
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DougS
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Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 6:21pm |
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18.4 is going to be a problem if you plan on plowing with a D17 or WD45. Fender clearance will be an issue too.
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HD6GTOM
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Posted: 10 Jun 2018 at 10:21pm |
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I don't understand why it was a problem. They worked fine, equipment was designed to be used as they were equipped.
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Charlie175
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Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 6:06am |
38's were an option on WD45's forward. Parts book shows them. 28's on a D14/15 should be easy enough to convert to as the centers on a WD/45 should bolt right up?
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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darrel in ND
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Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 6:26am |
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Takes less power to turn a smaller tire. Leaves more power left for pulling implement. Obviously more traction with bigger tires, but Allis felt that with the lift arms and snap coupler system, they could get the weight/traction needed from the implement. Problem came in when draw bar implements were pulled. The smaller tires worked at the time, but if they were the right thing to do, then every other company would have went to smaller tires, instead of allis going to larger ones. Darrel
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DougS
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Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 6:55am |
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Tire size doesn't matter if the transmission is geared lower for the larger tire. I suppose more torque and less RPM are applied to the axle in that setup, resulting in extra stress on the axle. Though this isn't all that significant. Net HP to the wheels would be the same. I remember when it was silo filling time. The neighbor helped with his JD A. It easily pulled a loaded wagon up the greasy wet slope while the WC just spun out. As for when using mounted equipment with the WD and 28 tires, the WD would out-plow the A easily.
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 10:47am |
So back in the day of these tractors being sold new ,how many sales men (do you think )ask the farmer would u like to equip to tractor with 38's on the rear .
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
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BrianC
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Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 4:21pm |
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Calvin that is a real good look. What size is the front tire, are the spindles modified/extended, or did you get the factory parts to match the 38's?
The Agco parts book shows the wheel and front spindle combinations.
I also wonder how many were sold this way. A google image search shows the vast majority (of D17 pictures posted in this internet age) are 28".
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ILGLEANER
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Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 4:57pm |
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But put a Wd45 with small tires and a 3 bottom plow. What tall tired tractor of the same he could out plow it 🤔🤔
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Macon Rounds
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Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 5:34pm |
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So,,,, ilGleaner :-)
a 45 hp tractor with 14.9 x 28" tires can out plow/pull....
a 45 hp tractor with 14.9 x 38" tires...
I don't understand that theory John ????
Edited by Macon Rounds - 11 Jun 2018 at 5:37pm
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The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate
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wekracer
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Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 5:40pm |
 Macon Rounds wrote:
So,,,, ilGleaner :-)
a 45 hp tractor with 14.9 x 28" tires can out plow/pull....
a 45 hp tractor with 14.9 x 38" tires...
I don't understand that theory John ????
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If the tractor with 38s is pulling from the draw bar with no tongue weight like most deers and red tractors did. It would only have its own weight for traction. A semi mounted snap coupler 45 has the weight of the implement plus the weight of the soil adding traction.
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ILGLEANER
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Posted: 11 Jun 2018 at 5:49pm |
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Put a Wd45 beside one with there plow and use the 45 and AC plow. I know which one wins Everytime.
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Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated.
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