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Lonn 
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Location: Назарово,Russia
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 Topic: 200 remote hyd problem
Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 8:57am |
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OK guys, I'm having trouble with the remotes. Blowing snow the other day and the remote cylinder for the spout quit working. Swithed hoses to the other remote couplers and still nothing. Tried a different hyd cylinder and still nothing. Oil level was slightly low but not by much. The rear lift still lifts the blower fine and the Power Director is working as is the power steering.
Many might know here but my background is 25 years ago I worked in the shop at an Allis dealer for four years then went to CaseIH as a partsman for four years. That's a while ago and as a mechanic I either worked on 170 through 200 transmissions or anything on any older tractors or lawn mowers. I never did a whole lot with hydraulics since tech school. I suspect a bad relief valve. Any thoughts?
Sorry for rambling.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 9:07am |
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If the 3-point hitch lifts the blower, it shouldn't be the relief valve. Sounds like coupler/nose piece issues.
Plug a 3000 psi gauge into the remotes one at a time and see what you've got.
Edited by DrAllis - 11 Feb 2019 at 9:08am
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MACK
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Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 8:02pm |
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Some Pioneer couplers will screw part way apart and quit. MACK
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Lonn
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Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 8:23pm |
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So I barrowed a guage and with the oil warmed to only 65 degrees the pressure was erratic.
At 2000 rpm it would only give me 500 + or - psi at each coupler at the low end. I got 2000 psi and sometimes 2200 psi but only at less than 2000 rpm and it wouldn't hold. Over 2000 rpm and the pressure was low..... 500 to 1200 psi. But if I just ease the hydraulic lever without actually going to full lift or lower I could get 2200 psi for a breif moment then it would drop.
I could also get around 1200 psi if I left the lever in raise or lower. Of course the levers will not detent to neutral. Before this problem cropped up all my levers would snap back to neutral.
Also the pressure would slowly drop from 1200 to about 250 psi when I left the lever in raise or lower. I did not check the pressure to the 3 point lift rams.
Edited by Lonn - 11 Feb 2019 at 8:24pm
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Lynn Marshall
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Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 8:35pm |
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Swap the relief valves with the one in the traction booster valve. You will probably have to readjust it after you switch it.
Edited by Lynn Marshall - 11 Feb 2019 at 8:35pm
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DrAllis
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Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 7:33am |
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That sounds like a relief valve issue. Ease into it and it holds. Funny the hitch raises because it's on the same relief valve.
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Lonn
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Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 1:42pm |
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I know but the hitch raises and the lever detents every time...... except at idle. I haven't dug into it any further because I don't want it apart during the storms this week. Although I suppose it's easy enough to swap relief valves. Right now I'm getting out and turning the spout by hand.
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Lonn
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Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 11:55am |
Small update. Yesterday I had a chance to remove the relief valve from the valve stack and it looked good. Could have been dirt I suppose but I put in new o-rings and reinstalled. Yes I know I can still swap relief valves from the Traction Booster.......... but before I removed and cleaned the relief valve I noticed a couple of things ......
#1 I put a remote in raise, and it sat there at less than 1000 psi and when I went to raise the 3-point at the same time it wouldn't lift at all. I put the remote lever back in hold and the 3-point works as normal. So I'm guessing the relief valve is bad ......... could the screw have backed off on its own? My guess at this point is that a piece of something got caught in the valve or the screw backed off, though the jam nut seemed tight.
Now #2 The hose going from the rear of the pump to the oil cooler in front of the radiator started pouring oil onto the floor. Unrelated I think but until I replace that hose I can't do anymore checking. I would have had it repaired yesterday but the local NAPA store who told me over the phone that he had all the JIC fittings to make a new hose or adapters to change to NPT, flat out lied just to get me into the store! He had no fittings other than straight ones. Zero 90˚ JIC elbows of any kind! He's the owner of the store and he flat out lied to get me to buy some cobbled up cluster _____ pile of fittings to make it work. Nope, I'll wait til Monday and get it all from closest dealer which is CaseIH where I used to work but he already made the hose with straight NPT fitting where I wanted a 90˚ JIC. I took the hose but I can cobble my own fittings at home. Plus he made the hose about a foot too long. I'm taking the hose to the CaseIH dealer to cut off the stupid NPT and put what I wanted on in the first place and that NAPA will never see me again.
I know #2 turned into a rant and it's my fault for not driving the 12 miles the opposite direction to where I know the competency level is slightly higher. At the CaseIH dealer I, myself would know where the fittings are and how to run the crimper if I had to build the hose my dag blamed self.
Edited by Lonn - 03 Mar 2019 at 11:56am
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DrAllis
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Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 3:10pm |
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To pressure test your 200's lift system you must have the engine revved up to 2,000 RPM or more. It sounds to me like you had slow engine speed and the lift section was only capable of producing 1,000 psi. The 3-point hitch cannot raise when a remote valve is activated, so that is normal. The remote wouldn't cancel itself because there was only 1,000 psi of pressure and it should take 17-1800 psi to self-cancel. The hitch raised when you shut off the remote valve and it lifts easily when there is no load on it. All sounds normal to me if the engine isn't revved up. I suppose there is a possibility the priority valve in the back section of the hydraulic pump is stuck, but if that's the case you would have problems building 2,200 psi even when throttled up to 2,000 RPM or more.
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Lonn
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Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 5:00pm |
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Thanks Dr, I had it throttled up to 2100 rpm and the snow blower is hooked up to the 3-point. It's good to know that's normal that the 3-point doesn't lift with remote in operation. Weird that it lifts an 8 foot dual auger Allied blower but the remotes won't move an empty remote cylinder.
Hopefully I'll know more tomorrow after I replace that hose.
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Lonn
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Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 5:05pm |
 DrAllis wrote:
That sounds like a relief valve issue. Ease into it and it holds. Funny the hitch raises because it's on the same relief valve. |
No it doesn't hold. Kinda hard to type my problem clearly. If I ease into it the pressure will breifly reach about 2200 but it won't stay at that pressure for more than a moment.
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MACK
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Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 8:47pm |
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Will it swing the spout if you ease the lever back? Still sounds like a bad coupler. MACK
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Ky.Allis
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Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 10:50pm |
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I agree,replace couplers. Happened to me once with a disc harrow. It was working fine all at once it would only try to lift just a little. New male tips on disc hoses and problem solved.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 04 Mar 2019 at 7:05am |
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Couplers was the first thing suggested to try, but it also sounded like a main relief that would hold up to a point and then open and then not maintain a steady 2,200 psi. Maybe there are two problems...…….
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Lonn
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Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 6:32am |
Stupid me, my repair manual, by my interpretation, made it look like the TB relief valve was in the back and the lift/remote relief valve was in front....... wrong! When I get a chance I'll take the rear one out or just try adjusting it. I'll probably pull the floor plate and switch them for now as suggested. And I do have a set of couplers from a 7000 series that I'll swap if the relief valve doesn't do the trick. Sorry for my mistake guys.
BTW It was my operators manual which gave a clear picture of which relief valve was located where. I'll probably drive it over to the neighbor's on Saturday where he has all the hydraulic gauges and a flow meter so we can check everything properly.
To top it all off my light switch gave out on me too and it was only 2 years old. Now I can't move snow without getting out to pivot the spout manually AND I can't move snow at night after work! ....................I think I'll put a couple LED light bars on while I'm at it.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 7:15am |
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Don't even try to adjust the relief valve as an attempt to repair your problem. They don't change themselves. You can disassemble it and reseal it without touching the adjustment screw and chances are the pressure setting will be exactly as it was before.
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Lonn
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Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 10:34am |
Yep, you're probably right but I thought maybe the screw could back out r something. I don't know the history of this tractor prior to me owning it other
than the previous owner keeled over at 54 years old and all his stuff was sold at
an estate auction. It's is an oily dripping mess around the valve stack so I may go as far as resealing everything in that area and I may just take the duals off the 7050 and finish snow season with that. My biggest problem is all I get is an hour here and a half hour there to even have a chance to check things out.
Edited by Lonn - 05 Mar 2019 at 10:35am
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