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1955 HD9B w/Detroit Diesel - Starter Removal

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JimCPaso View Drop Down
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Joined: 25 Jul 2024
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimCPaso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1955 HD9B w/Detroit Diesel - Starter Removal
    Posted: 25 Jul 2024 at 11:37pm
Hello all,

First post, appreciate your kind assistance.

I'm resurrecting our old HD9B. It hasn't been started for at least 15 years. The starter motor isn't responding, even with direct 12V connection. It's not drawing any current. I'm thinking there may have been a bit of water intrusion at some point. There are three bolts holding the starter in place. Is it possible to get to all 3 bolts/nuts from topside or am I going to have to get underneath to tackle the lower bolt? Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks so much.
Jim
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KJCHRIS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KJCHRIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2024 at 10:06pm
U should be able to, are you flexible? May need a U joint along with a couple extensions to reach from front of starter. 
 F Y I; Free up the engine emergency kill flapper on charger intake before U try to start it. 
 I've not worked on HD9 crawler but have worked on the 53  & 71 Detroit in old Adams, Le Tourneau Westinghouse, Bantam Shield, Little Giant, & Pettibone equipment. I sold all my old D D & Cummins tools to my replacement after I left there. 
 
AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B,
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JimCPaso View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimCPaso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2024 at 1:45am
Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, flexible and have the necessary socket extensions and universal joint adapters. I spent some time with the service manual today and it appears there's a band around the starter that, once removed, allows access to commutator and brushes. I plan to remove the band this weekend and do some gentle cleaning. If I can get some 600-800 grit looped around the commutator, I should be able to clean it up.

I think you're referring to the engine shut-off control rod. Thanks, and I'll double check operation of that system. I know it controls a small valve in the intake and pulling the knob out/away from the dash closes that flap and may also shut off the fuel.

I'll share an update once I get a good look at the starter - should be fun!

-Jim
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Codger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2024 at 6:09am
You would be much better removing the starter from the engine and taking it apart than trying to "burnish" the commutator segments with it in place. It is probably a 40MT series starter and they are a bit heavy and awkward to handle so be prepared for about 35 pounds of dead weight once you start removing the three fasteners retaining it to the flywheel housing. There are both four brush, and eight brush variants of this starter and both work the same and on a bench the commutator and brush faces and commutator segments are easily cleaned up. At the same time when the starter is removed, take the solenoid apart also and address both it's contacts, and copper ring as these burn and carbon track with usage. They can be the source of no starter engagement but if you are getting no response at all, and you prove voltage coming from starter switch, and grounds are good, this is where to look first.

I've done a lot of these myself but anytime I pull a starter or alternator anymore it goes in for rebuild. I don't have a growler for testing, and cannot cut a commutator for proper segment depth so this is best left to someone in that game. There are two or three different sizes/styles of bushings in both the starter nose housing, and end plate and these should be evaluated as both wear with use. I've found many times over the years it can be difficult to beat someone at their own game.

Should you decide to do this, (and it's easy generally) do not use emery cloth for your abrasive. It is conductive and can cause things to go haywire as it's electrically conductive. Use either aluminum oxide, silicone carbide, or flint paper to clean your electrical components. A good spray of electrical contact cleaner to rinse away any filings is always good too.
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
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gemdozer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemdozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2024 at 10:46am
I removed some startor from HD9 and one had the rear bolt with 24 tooth
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Ray54 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2024 at 5:13pm
Good to find another guy into old tractors in the area.  I have driven several HD 9's but never wrenched on one. So no quick advice for you. I know a few guys left with real experience fixing on the Detroit Diesels. The one is still running a shop in town working on the newer stuff. He use to have a sign on the front says a dealer in DD parts. But the corporate buy ups and outs who knows how easy parts are to find.


I believe what Chris was referring to is the DD tendance to over speed themselves  after siting for years. The flapper cuts off air. Many of the old guys want the precleaner off the air cleaner pipe and good piece of wood to set across it if it starts running away. So easy to be ready, so much scrap metal if your not.


Edited by Ray54 - 27 Jul 2024 at 6:10pm
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JimCPaso View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimCPaso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2024 at 11:14pm

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I can now answer my first question... it's not possible to reach the 3rd bolt on the HD9-B's starter from the top. Thankfully, it was straight forward to pull the belly pan below the engine and access that third bolt - and the associated nut behind it! Oh, did I mention I don't like spiders?

 

The starter is corroded and frozen so it's time for a rebuild from a pro. I had more than my share of fun removing it.

 

Chris, Ray, point well taken. After refitting the starter, I may need to find a local expert to keep me company on that first start. The flapper appears to be free and working but I do like the idea of a nice, solid plank available to set across the intake.



 


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