D17 with 8420 Round Baler
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=211539
Printed Date: 18 Sep 2026 at 9:32am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: D17 with 8420 Round Baler
Posted By: AjsAllis
Subject: D17 with 8420 Round Baler
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2026 at 8:08pm
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Good Afternoon Allis Community, I Have a series 4 D17 and am pulling a 8420 Case IH baker. This baler is rated for 30-60 Hp. When I have a full bale ( 3x4 ) the tractor sounds like it's struggling. Really bogged down. Infact sometimes it has a hard time turning the bale. So what is the matter here. This shouldn't be an issue right? This is the only 3 time I've used the baler since I got it but it's done it every time. Pondering what to do. Anything is helpful. |
Replies:
Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2026 at 8:10pm
| Tie the bale before it starts struggling. |
Posted By: jiminnd
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2026 at 8:15pm
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I had an 8480 baler on 706 IH, when full it pulled hard. Maybe just have quit sooner. ------------- 1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner) |
Posted By: KJCHRIS
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2026 at 8:33pm
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My guess is bale chamber is FULL.. Does baler have a Bale Size Indicator.? Yes. Make a mark for a bit smaller bale and tie bale & discharge at new mark. ------------- AC 200, CAH, AC185D bareback, AC 180D bareback, D17 III, WF. D17 Blackbar grill, NF. D15 SFW. Case 1175 CAH, Bobcat 543B, |
Posted By: AjsAllis
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2026 at 9:34pm
| I'm glad to hear it's normal...ish , I'd previously had a 80hp deere with a 604L vermeer and never felt bogged down in that setup so was surprised the D17 is |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2026 at 11:01pm
| There still COULD be a tractor issue. When's the last time it was given a good tune-up with a new air filter ?? |
Posted By: 55allis
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 12:09am
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Is it gas or diesel? ------------- 1955 AC WD45 diesel with D262 repower, 1949 AC WD, 1963 A-C D17 series 3, several Allis garden tractors 
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Posted By: DanielW
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 2:29am
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The 8420 is just a rebadged Hesston 530/5530. Good balers for what they were meant for, but designed to get by on low, low HP. Possibly the lightest pulling round baler made. As the OP will know, they made a small (39" x 4') bale. And although they were a hard core baler, the bales are still not packed as tight as other hard-cored balers. And they were built light, to have less weight for the tractor to lug around. So not really comparable to the 8480 on the IH mentioned above (or any other round baler for that matter). A D17 really shouldn't have any trouble pulling an 8420. In fact, it should barely feel it. Worth checking out the tractor as Doc mentions above, but I'd be looking at the baler too. All rolls turning good with no evidence of a bad bearing? A bad roll bearing can really gobble the HP (and will soon start a fire). Has it ran enough this year to have the sides of the chamber polished up? How fast in how thick of a windrow? They really weren't a fast nor high-capacity baler. And don't try making a bale larger than their max diameter - those balers were built light with no slip-clutch nor shears pin. You can overload and break something without a lot of trouble on one of those. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 4:29am
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I used to pull a 5530 with a D-12. check bearings with an IR thermometer is always a good idea. As I recall, the baler has an over full indicator, a bar that is pushed against a sprocket and rattles loudly if the bale is as full as maxxing out. sometimes hay will jam against the mech, check this too... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 5:24am
I remember (many years ago), Dad had a reason to use his WD45 when it was dark. There were many sparks coming from the plug wires. When he put new wires on, there was a noticeable increase in power.
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DrAllis wrote:Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 8:48am
| Assuming your tachometer works, as the bale grows larger thru the process, you might need to open the throttle up some more to maintain 1650 RPM engine speed or more. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 10:14am
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You say Infact sometimes it has a hard time turning the bale. Do you mean that sitting stopped the tractor is working hard just to trun the bale? Or do you mena that the bale is barely turning like somehting is slipping?
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Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 10:51am
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Admittedly, I am unfamiliar with round balers, and actually operating a D17. Thru my years I have noticed there is a tendency of some operators, especially when it comes to operating hay equipment, there is a fear of ‘opening up the throttle’. Years ago I worked with a colleague that insisted of using a IH 826, or an 856 for small square baling, instead of the Farmall 656, or possibly a Farmall 400. He claimed used a big powerhouse , then keeping the rpm’s low would make better baled hay. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 11:38am
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We had an AC 444 square baler with a 44 bale thrower. If you ran it at PTO speed (540 rpm), it would seldom miss a bale. If you ran it much faster or slower, it would miss much more often. My theory is that most PTO equipment is designed to run a specific speed (540/1000) and it tends to run best at that speed.
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Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 12:01pm
| My neighbor ran one of those balers with a Ford 3000 your D17 should run it with no problem |
Posted By: AjsAllis
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 1:49pm
| To be more clear , if it's about 70% of a bale I'll hear the engine start to work harder and can definitely tell the bale is not rolling as fast as it should be. On a few of them I had to go to neutral with the power director.Allow the bale to regain momentum And feed twine. Even if I wasn't full size bale. |
Posted By: AjsAllis
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 1:51pm
| I wanted to hear that someone was using something smaller than my D17 with one of these baler. I think you're right checking the bearings with the temp gun is a simple thing to check. |
Posted By: AjsAllis
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 1:54pm
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DR It's a Gas and has only had maybe 30 hours since full carb rebuild and new filter. I only bale for about 10 hours per year. So it's been 3 years. And no the tach doesn't work. Haven't needed it until now. I've been running full RPM and in some cases low 1 just get the job done and believe me it's not heavy hay. |
Posted By: thendrix
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 1:59pm
NH square balers do the same thing. I ran a 273 and if it wasn't at 540 it didn't want to tie. Would run the pickup and the plunger but no tying. I guess it's the timing aspect. I agree with what's been said before. Having to stop to let the bale catch up without the chamber full means something is in a bind. I'd say look for a bearing that's dry or not turning or maybe a bent roller ------------- "Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan |
Posted By: DanielW
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 2:06pm
| From your description, something is definitely not how it should be. Are you sure it's a power issue, and not a slipping clutch/power-director? Does the engine really bog down hard, or is it rather that the baler/PTO is slowing down? |
Posted By: AjsAllis
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2026 at 2:32pm
The first time it happened caught me off guard and nearly killed the tractor and bale did stop rolling. I got out of gear and was able to get bale rolling again. The next several times I could see it slowing its roll and engine bogging almost simultaneously. |
Posted By: rw
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2026 at 2:28pm
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if the hay is wet to the point it makes gummy green stuff stick to the sides -- that is harder to roll in the chamber than dryer hay. Also make sure your chains are all driving the rollers. My neighbor had a Gehl 1470 that he had been working on. As he started using it it was pulling hard and shearing pins. I watched it run for a bit and it got in real bind. He had installed a double sprocket backwards making the belts and the floor drum running different speeds when they need to be running about the same speed so the hay will roll easily in the chamber. We flipped the sprocket over and got them all going the same speed, ran like new.
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Posted By: Jason n
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2026 at 9:57pm
| Run an 8420 with a 175. It runs it effortlessly. If you don't close the bale chamber all the way it will have trouble turning the bale. There is an indicator rod on top of the baler that should drop all the way down to show chamber is properly closed. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2026 at 10:09pm
| Like the tailgate must be more than gravity closed ?? It has to be hydraulically forced shut as much as the hydraulics can close it ?? |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2026 at 4:01am
Yes, the baler needs 2-way hydraulics. and you have to look to see that the flag bar has gone down, But after a while of using it, you get into a rhythm ... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: DanielW
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2026 at 5:35am
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Another tip for that series of baler: Like the G-series Vermeers, they were strictly spring tensioning on the bale. But unlike the Vermeers, they needed the belts quite tight when the gate was closed to start turning under tension right off the hop or it would have problems starting the core. So you didn't want to store them under tension, or they'd get slightly stretched and not be under full tension when empty. Hesston (and Massey/Case when they rebadged them) issued pins for long-term storage - you put in holes in each side with the gate open, then closed the gate. The pins kept kept the tension off the belts for long-term storage (can't remember if they did this by just keeping the gate slightly open, or preventing the tensioning mechanism from extending completely). If you suspect it to be the baler turning hard, try turning the PTO with a pipe wrench while the belts are under tension. Shouldn't take too much effort to turn it. If it does, try taking the tension off the belts by the above method then try rolling it by hand again. At least that will help you narrow down whether it's in the rolls or the driveline.
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Posted By: 8070nc
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2026 at 6:34am
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This is neither here nor there as far as this thread goes except for a D17 s4 Ive got one. Its one of the guttiest tractors ive ever been on. It just doesnt give up ------------- 1984 80780 1957 D14 DES 300 with 25000 engine 616 tractor |
Posted By: DanielW
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2026 at 1:22pm
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Jason above makes a good point re: tailgate closing: If the tailgate doesn't close and latch fully and positively (or if it doesn't stay latched), it can pop open a little when running. If it pops open a lot it will just stop picking up and make a mess, and you'll know something's wrong. But if it only unlatches a little and the hydraulics are (kind of) holding it mostly closed, it might still make some half-hearted, ugly attempts to keep the bale rolling, but suck a lot of power doing so as the bale won't be properly captured and supported on the belts/rollers. Make uber sure the latch mechanism is working properly. And maybe have someone walk beside you as you make a roll to make sure it's not coming unlatched (check both sides).
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Posted By: AjsAllis
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2026 at 2:51pm
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Thanks guys for taking this discussion on. I always saw the gate indicator tucked away in the right postion when baling but who knows , Maybe something was going on there , I will try turning the baler with a pipe wrench and report back. I did check the air filter like Dr said and it's clean as a whistle. I do have a local friend I picked his brain and all he said is were at 6500ft and have to account for the loss in HP for that and he claims baler HP ratings are for operating the baler not including the bale weight so he always has minimum 40hp more tractor to compensate. Edit- also I will admit it was morning with some dew so the post about friction on bale chamber sure is possible, the field I was baling gave my deere 535 baler a run for its money when it was dry and that's what was happening the day before with the 8420 so I stopped and waited till morning. Short and slick aren't around baler friendly |
Posted By: AjsAllis
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2026 at 9:45am
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Some more diagnostics , the baler belts do not turn with a pipe wrench on the drive line. So they are slipping on main roller. Also rear gate does have hay stuck but it seems that it is latched, although not by much, so I will give these some more attention and see what is what. Happy 4th yall. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2026 at 10:28pm
| like another update.... |