wow! what a time for this to happen!

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   got a big snow dump last nite and tractor won't start. allis 6140 diesel 40 hp.had a wire short at the starter. my 82 yr. old farmer neighbor was there and said he could fix it. fine, emergency repair done(wrapped the offending wire with a load of elect. tape )

until i can find a new wiring harness since the current one needs replacement. he unhooked the 3 wires from the starter- hot wire from battery, wires from key switch to the starter and ground and a very short black wire from the starter to the small bendix motor(?) on top of the starter. now he is not sure he hooked them back up right. got a large spark when he tried to hook up the short bendix lead to the lug to the battery. then hooked it up to the lug opposite the lug to battery. i'm sure it is now wired corrcctly,but absolutely nothing at the key switch-totally dead. all connections are good and clean. battery connections likewise. battery fully up.  any ideas? art                                  

	This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
	The Forum	Parts and Services	Unofficial Allis Store	Tractor Shows	Serial Numbers	History

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
artmo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 11 Dec 2009 Location: nky Points: 16	Post Options Post Reply Quote artmo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: wow! what a time for this to happen! Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 9:02am
	got a big snow dump last nite and tractor won't start. allis 6140 diesel 40 hp.had a wire short at the starter. my 82 yr. old farmer neighbor was there and said he could fix it. fine, emergency repair done(wrapped the offending wire with a load of elect. tape ) until i can find a new wiring harness since the current one needs replacement. he unhooked the 3 wires from the starter- hot wire from battery, wires from key switch to the starter and ground and a very short black wire from the starter to the small bendix motor(?) on top of the starter. now he is not sure he hooked them back up right. got a large spark when he tried to hook up the short bendix lead to the lug to the battery. then hooked it up to the lug opposite the lug to battery. i'm sure it is now wired corrcctly,but absolutely nothing at the key switch-totally dead. all connections are good and clean. battery connections likewise. battery fully up. any ideas? art

Sponsored Links

Roddo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 16 Jul 2010 Location: Brant, Ontario Points: 466	Post Options Post Reply Quote Roddo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 9:19am
	IS there a fuse panel somewhere that you can check? Sounds like if the fuses are good you might have a bad switch.

artmo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 11 Dec 2009 Location: nky Points: 16	Post Options Post Reply Quote artmo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 9:56am
	fuses and all connections are good roddo. i'm really stumped. about 8 inches of snow need to be plowed. i'm scr**ed!!

Bret (OH) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Blanchester, OH Points: 347	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bret (OH) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 10:04am
	Does that tractor have a manual fuel shut off or does it shut off with the key? Does it have to have the clutch pedal depressed to start? Could be that switch, or the neutral safety circuit, or the PTO safety switch. If it shuts off with a manual pull cable for the fuel pump you may be able to bypass the ign. sw. to start it.

artmo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 11 Dec 2009 Location: nky Points: 16	Post Options Post Reply Quote artmo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 10:24am
	bret- has a manual fuel on/off. clutch doesn"t need to be depressed. it does shut down with the manual pull cable to the fuel supply.have had no problems with starting it before the short occurred in the wire from the key switch. art

Bret (OH) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Blanchester, OH Points: 347	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bret (OH) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 10:32am
	PLEASE be safe in doing this. MAKE SURE tractor is OUT OF GEAR and PTO is OFF!!! Sounds like starter has solonoid mounted to its housing, (Delco style). One large stud on the solonoid will have + battery cable on it. Other large stud will be the one with the short wire going into the starter motor. There should be a small stud, the one with the wires going to the starter switch. When the switch is moved to "start" there will be 12 volts positive supplied to the small stud and the solonoid will engage the starter motor. If this is not happening, try using an auxillary jumper wire to connect the Battery + to the small stud and see if the starter will engage and start the tractor. BE SAFE!!!

artmo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 11 Dec 2009 Location: nky Points: 16	Post Options Post Reply Quote artmo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 11:43am
	BINGO!! the jump wire is turning the engine over,bret. it's just too cold for the engine to start w/o the glow plugs working for about 20 seconds. any way to engage the pre heat. ? also,with the jump wire does the key have to be in the "on" position? i assume so. also,does this mean that the solenoid ,which looks to be a part of the whole starter, is not in itself replacable or are there some internal nuts/bolts inside of the starter housing that would allow the solenoid to be replaced on its own,rather than replacing the entire unit? would the solenoid be available at an auto supply dealer or would i have to try an a/c (good luck to me) dealer? it is a hitachi starter that seems to not be available. a direct replacement supposedly is a wilson unit out of canada. i really appreciate your help on this,bret. art

Bret (OH) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Blanchester, OH Points: 347	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bret (OH) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 11:55am
	If the jumper wire is allowing the starter to engage and the engine is turning over this proves that the starter and solonoid art O.K. The problem is that the key switch is not sending 12 volts to the small post. Since the tractor has a manual fuel shut off, the key does not have to be on for it to run, however the key will need to be on for the charging system and most other accessories like the lights to function. I am not familiar with the type of glow plug/manifold heater arrangement this tractor has but that system is probably enabled by another solonoid/relay that could be jumpered to send voltage to the heaters, you'll just have to trace wires to find it.

artmo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 11 Dec 2009 Location: nky Points: 16	Post Options Post Reply Quote artmo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 12:40pm
	thanks again,bret. i'll fire up the bullet htr. to warm it up,and probably change the ign. switch.

Bret (OH) Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Silver Level Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Blanchester, OH Points: 347	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bret (OH) Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Dec 2010 at 1:38pm
	Just changing the switch may not fix it. Need to use a test light and find out where power is stopping. Ground test light lead and probe terminals on switch to make sure power is getting there to begin with. Maybe power is interupted before it makes it to the switch. My point is sometimes just replacing parts without proper diagnosis won't always fix the problem. Good luck on your repairs and snow removal. I'll help again if I can.