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Codger 
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 Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 2:28pm |
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You probably have a bad rectifier in the alternator precluding full wave rectification on all three phases generated. The "pulsing" you see in the indication is evidence of that. There is an AC component riding DC level.
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ACinSC
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 3:37pm |
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Rob , are you saying I need another alt ? If so , what vehicle does my old on fit ? Thanks !
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 3:45pm |
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AC... i dont know what your #1 terminal is connected to.. If that is your SIGNAL, then you might just put a jumper from #2 to the BIG battery lug/ cable on the back of the alternator........ as in the drawing above.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 3:51pm |
Codger, if you have power on the #1 terminal, i thought the battery would drain when the tractor was off ? Thats why you use a switch or diode in most of the drawings ?
I have never tried what you saying, but i take your word for it that it works. .... but i cant explain why the battery dont drain ?............ if the charge rate is well regulated and your battery life is acceptable, then you have SUCCESS !
Edited by steve(ill) - 18 Feb 2022 at 4:05pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Codger
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 4:29pm |
I had been told many years ago the battery would drain also but it's just not been my experience. Without alternator rotation, there is not enough forward bias, (voltage) on the cathodes of the rectifier diodes to turn them on so they are an open in the system electrically. Again this can be proven with a bolt against the rear of the case. Also with an ammeter inserted in series between the B+ terminal on the alternator case, and the wire itself. I do not prefer inductive clamp on meters to measure DC current in low levels and always go in series to measure DC current.
It takes much less current to keep a circuit energized than to initially power it on. This is why one has to increase the engine rpm to raise the internal voltage and field excitation current to bring the system to a "charging" state. The engine rpm can then be reduced and the system remains operational supplying operating current.
Again my thoughts on the open terminal are it's there to provide an initial surge of voltage at very low engine rpm to get the alternator into it's charging state as soon as the engine starts.
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Codger
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 4:37pm |
No. I would order a diode bridge for your alternator and replace only that. The alternator comes right apart with four machine screws and the rectifier bridge is fastened into the rear end bell. Books for the procedure are easily obtained and most any service manual will show the process. If you only have a blown diode and the unit otherwise works well, it's worth working with. Might also install a set of brushes and clean up the slip rings while in there.
Once off the engine give the unit a simple rotation test listening and feeling for bearing noise, binding, or unnecessary effort to spin it over as they should turn easily. Only the brushes are riding on the slip rings and of course the rotor in it's bearings is the only resistance. Give the bearings some fresh grease when putting it back together.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 8:43pm |
I know lots of folks use the ONE wire alternators, but I don't like em as most of them have to rev engine up too high to start the exitation for it to start charging. Just my choice.
That;s a good dwg Steve has posted, nice and simple. I like to use a universal 3 position ignition switch ( OFF-ON-Start) on everything,,remembering that for a backhoe/loader you prolly ain't ever gonna need headlights, tail lights or signal lights,,but ain't difficult to add on with a simple On-Off toggle switch.
I cut all the hundred year old wiring out and re-wired with a universal ignition keyed switch and the simplist writing set up you ever seen,,,but it starts every time,,,,, 
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 9:20pm |
'ticking' might also mean there's corrosion or 'bridging' in the alternator. Something like a buildup of dust,mud,salty water. Used to get alternator 'problems' after going offroad in my CJ-5. 'Cure' was to CLEAN the muck out of the alternator,dry it off real good. May not be your ticking cause...just one I found out decades ago..
DJ's right, get rid of 100% of the old wiring ! You could have 2 krappy old wire, chewed insulation, funky grounding...... always best to start clean...
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
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Codger
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 2:45am |
Yes, conductive "tracing" has always been a problem in mobile equipment alternators due to the varying and sometimes harsh environment these units live in. That alternator could also have a filter capacitor having changed value, or opened up. I've seen this cause radio interference and gauges to act erratically in the past.
Not to hijack the thread but I'm doing the same with my 11B dozer. It currently has a 20amp "DN" series alternator, and I've purchased a 60amp 20SI series to replace it. Both use the SAE J180 mount so will be a slip fit. I'm also going to do away with the current wiring loom and external regulator citing age. Although it is a 24V system, the theory is the same.
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ACinSC
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 7:16am |
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Thanks guys , I'll try the jumper wire Steve suggested and see what happens
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 1:19pm |
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Can I use a volt meter. Can’t find a amp meter locally
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 1:30pm |
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A voltmeter will work fine. A voltmeter does not use the heavy wire from the alternator output terminal run to it as charge/discharge currents do not pass through a voltmeter as they did the original ammeter. One terminal of it will get power from your ignition switch (you want it to be off when the switch is off) and the other terminal will need a ground wire.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 2:31pm |
 Jim.ME wrote:
A voltmeter will work fine. A voltmeter does not use the heavy wire from the alternator output terminal run to it as charge/discharge currents do not pass through a voltmeter as they did the original ammeter. One terminal of it will get power from your ignition switch (you want it to be off when the switch is off) and the other terminal will need a ground wire. |
Thank you sir
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Codger
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 2:48pm |
If you jumper the B+ terminal to the rt terminal and start the engine, rev it up, then place your voltmeter +, (positive) lead on the B+ terminal, and the -, (negative) lead to the alternator case you will get a reading. If it is 13.5VDC to 14.5VDC the alternator is charging the battery fine. Shut the engine down and recheck again and you should have between 12.2VDC, and 12.8VDC with no load on the system. This is static battery voltage in an unpowered state. A typical multimeter will not handle the current the alternator is capable of producing and they are usually limited to 10A. Unless a higher end multimeter, this portion is unfused.
This is of course assuming you do not have an installed ammeter in the dashboard panel. If so just look to see if that indicates a charge condition after you install the jumper wire.....
Edited by Codger - 19 Feb 2022 at 2:56pm
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ACinSC
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 3:06pm |
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Thanks Rob, I do have a newish gauge. Changed it out to see if the old gauge was causing the ticking needle . Thanks again!
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 5:18pm |
As Jim and Rob said... the ammeter goes IN THE CIRCUIT... the volt meter goes AROUND the circuit.... like below.
Edited by steve(ill) - 19 Feb 2022 at 5:20pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 6:24pm |
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Got it all hooked up and ran the one terminal to an idiot light.
It charges too much.
It’s got the volt meter in the red. Alternator is noisy/clicking and the light stays off even when it’s shut off.
I don’t think I have the light wired correctly.
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Codger
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 6:36pm |
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How did you wire the alternator?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 6:40pm |
Thad... remind us... you are using a 10 SI alternator, and have the #2 small terminal connected to the BAT terminal on the back of the alternator.. and you put a LIGHT BULB on the #1 terminal feed by 12v from ignition switch ??
Edited by steve(ill) - 19 Feb 2022 at 6:42pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 7:06pm |
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Yes Steve I believe I have number 2 to the big battery lug. Then number 1 goes straight to a little light which is grounded through the housing.
The light is always on. Switch on or off. Running or not.
Am I supposed to supply 12 volt to that wire?
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 7:17pm |
oopsy ! Then number 1 goes straight to a little light which is grounded through the housing. !!! OOPSY !!!
One end of the light goes to the #1 tab of the alternator, the other end goes to the switched side of the ignition switch ( same as the 10 ohm, 10 watt resistor in the drawing just above.....)
The light has to be 'floating' NOT grounded. Typically the light will be a plastic shell, with 2 black wires coming out of it. The 'nice' ones FIT into the lower ,left hole of a D-14 dash..which for the life of me can't member what it's really for....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 7:21pm |
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right... power comes FROM the ignition switch ( 12v) thru the light and to TERMINAL #1...the light has NO GROUND.... When you shut off the IGNITION there is no power to the light.
Edited by steve(ill) - 19 Feb 2022 at 7:22pm
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 7:52pm |
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Steve at B&B can likely fix you up with a plug in connector for your alternator with a diode in the switch wire that goes to the # 1 terminal and a ring terminal on the # 2 terminal wire to go to the battery output terminal. No indicator light will be needed, just use the voltmeter.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 9:10pm |
Jim.ME wrote:
Steve at B&B can likely fix you up with a plug in connector for your alternator with a diode in the switch wire that goes to the # 1 terminal and a ring terminal on the # 2 terminal wire to go to the battery output terminal. No indicator light will be needed, just use the voltmeter. |
I think I’ll get ahold oh him and do just that.👍
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 9:11pm |
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If I get this ironed out will it quit over charging?
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 9:27pm |
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Once you have the wiring straight with clean, tight connections (including both ends of the battery cables) it should stop overcharging. If it doesn't, it is possible you could have a bad regulator in the alternator.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 20 Feb 2022 at 4:50am |
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Found the overcharging issue.
I rolled the alternator back to install the belt. Actually a few times.
The Flat terminal from number 2 armed against number one. I assume I smoked the regulator.
What else may it have ruined?
Brand new alternator. Not happy with me.
Will have an alternator plug when I reinstall the alternator.
I also have the exciter wire figured out. I need a neat little incandescent light.
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 20 Feb 2022 at 6:11am |
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Have you tried it since you fixed the terminals from touching? It might work, if you didn't. if you are going with the indicator light, the diode is not needed. You can get the plain 2 wire flat replacement plug for a 10SI alternator at most parts stores. Dorman 85841, or at NAPA try Echlin VRC148 or NW78105 the plug/pigtail, that might help get one at a local parts store.
Edited by Jim.ME - 20 Feb 2022 at 6:32am
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 20 Feb 2022 at 6:43am |
Jim.ME wrote:
Have you tried it since you fixed the terminals from touching? It might work, if you didn't. if you are going with the indicator light, the diode is not needed. You can get the plain 2 wire flat replacement plug for a 10SI alternator at most parts stores. Dorman 85841, or at NAPA try Echlin VRC148 or NW78105 the plug/pigtail, that might help get one at a local parts store.
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Yes I’ve tried it. It’s putting out 16 or more volts. The volt meter goes to 16 and it’s in the red. I’ll try it today with a portable meter. I assume I fried the voltage regulator or worse.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 20 Feb 2022 at 6:02pm |
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Tried it again today. Same results.
Also when I shut it off the light goes out for a second then comes back on.
I had an old alternator in the shop. I was gonna rob the voltage regulator from but they’re different.
I cleaned the old one up made sure brushes floated and cleaned the slip rings.
Put it on and everything works as it should. It’s putting out 14.71 to 14.73 volts.
I hope this is ok.
The light goes out when I shut it off now.
Thanks for the help guys.
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