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WD and WD45 Electronic Power steering conversion |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 20166 |
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My WD-45 wide front/no weights/no fluid weighs 3600 lbs. 1200 lbs on the front is pretty close. A loader or front wheels in the mud would add to that steering pressure. You'll probably be just fine.
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Jtaylor
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Oct 2021 Location: Barrie, Ontario Points: 194 |
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I think that is the best test for it. Unfortunately my tractor will not have the loader on it, although im sure someone will do the same to their machine with a loader on at some point.. Would be a great test!
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TomYaz
Orange Level Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: PA Points: 10323 |
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Ok looking good....once you have it perfected, start making kits!
I would want one...but truth be told my wants far outstrips my means....
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If its not an All-Crop, it all crap!
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13525 |
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Well, Dr. Allis,,,I'm sure glad you tackled that issue on the practicality of installing one of these EPS on a tractor with a loader as I am very interested in Justin's upgrading his tractor's power steering. I'm not sure what one bundle of shingles weighs but we were putting 8 at a time in the bucket and it was all it wanted,,!! I'm not having any luck locating some of the parts I may need for the power steering issue on my D14, The guy at ASAP wished me luck on finding a salvageable pump and even AGCO does not have any of the RV parts and I think those parts would be key for a complete rebuild. I would much rather overhaul the original PS unit but if parts are not available you gpt to improvise,,,
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Gatz in NE
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lincoln, NE Points: 1035 |
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A guy I know did this to a Farmall B. He said to make sure to change the plug wires from copper to graphite to avoid EMF issues with the control module. This might be the one mentioned on page 1 about the tractor in Red Power mag, but it was a Farmall B for sure.
Edited by Gatz in NE - 27 Mar 2022 at 9:30pm |
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22228 |
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DJ, a bundle of shingles weigh about 80 pounds, same as a 24x30 patio stone...They get heavier though ,the older we get ! BTW a 'bundle' will kinda cover a sheet of plywood, 3 bundles make a 'square' (100 sqft) |
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Jtaylor
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Oct 2021 Location: Barrie, Ontario Points: 194 |
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EMF could be an issue, It would not be uncommon, Although with the way i have the ECU setup, we should be good for EMF. The ECU is located on the other side of the tractor and away from the distributor. time will tell though!
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Jtaylor
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Oct 2021 Location: Barrie, Ontario Points: 194 |
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I was able to get the original shaft support installed with a reducing bushing form the original (1" roughly) to 3/4" ID. it was a direct fit and worked well at holding the shaft. I did drill another hole through the bushing to allow grease in just like the original.
Onto making a bracket to hold the unit from twisting. This bracket will be interesting. Looking into a few different ways to mount it that will allow the unit to be removed if ever required without disassembly of the tractor to do so.
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13525 |
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Hey Gatz,,,I did go and join the Red Power site and got on their archives section and I went all the way back to 2019 and found a few articles about use of an ESM, but not the actual article,,,,, Gonna post a "request" for some info,,,maybe I can zero in some more. I got my Buddy that owns a wrecking yard looking me for a unit out of one of them cars that Justin used,,,,, I ain't wanting to disassemble this tractor until I either locate all the Allis parts or find one of the ESM units and see how ole Justin comes out with his,,,,,
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13525 |
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Well,,,you got that right,Jay,,them sobs got heavier and heavier as we went and I know the D14 wasn't liking em any more than we did,,,, I was having so many problems trying to get into close quarters in back yard with the dang PS sometimes working and more times NOT working I finally had to take a 20 foot section of the wood fence down to get other access to different part of the house,,,which left me more work that still needs to get done,,,,,
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 80101 |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Gatz in NE
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lincoln, NE Points: 1035 |
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@desertjoe
this article in Farm Show is much the same, but may provide a few more bits of info for you..... Ken was nice enough to give permission to post the article.
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13525 |
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Hey Steve and Gatz,,,,I just LOVE "American Enginuity",,don't ya;ll,,,?? It "IS" what made America SO great,,,,!! I am on my way to my Buddy's yard in the Alien Town to get a Saturn PS unit that he says he has,,,, The thing different bout my application is that I will have to drain and block off the Present PS system as it is presently contaminating the engine oil by leaking thru the PS pump (see previous statements by Dr Allis) The engine oil level HAS come up a little with only bout 2 hours of tractor operation,,,,Ya'll think ONLY the ESM system would be plenty good for the D14 WITH the loader??? Sure hope so,,,,,,
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13525 |
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Well,,I went to my Buddy's yard in The Alien Town and fount a 2005 Saturn Vue,,,I did not know they were made by GM,,,,? The engine was still in the car,,,and,,,,and,,That almost scairt me off the project as for all the hoses, engine pieces and chit,,,heck,,you can't even SEE the dang steering mechanism,,,I can see one little piece of the rack and Pinion, so I know the rest of it is in there,,!!! Charlie's yard hand came by check on me and the conversation finally got around to how to get it out,,,? He tells me, "Charlie wants me to help you get it out so," I did a brandon and whispered to him, I'll give you a $20 on top of what Charlie pays you,,,,and,,,and,,,he broke and run to go get his tools,,,!! Sure glad I had that Jackson in my pocket cause I cannot work on my belly or my back either,,!! Susspossed to go pick it up tamarrow,,, I gots a question for ole Justin,,I think in your first pic,,you had an ECM laying there,,,Is the ESM gonna require the computor and how to program,,???
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Jtaylor
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Oct 2021 Location: Barrie, Ontario Points: 194 |
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Glad you found one! lots out there! The ECM is required to control the unit. When it is removed from the vehicle, it should be on the same unit with a little metal bracket. make sure you keep it. also make sure it is a silver case and not the black case units. you will still need another module found online (i will post the link shortly) to trick the ECU into thinking it is seeing vehicle speed. Once you get this unit, it is all plug and play. no computer programming of any sorts. if you have the option with your buddy at the yard, get him to cut a good section of power cable that plugs into the ecm. That plug is $6 if you went new plus the crimping which is a pain. the wire side would give you a head start into splicing the wiring rather than crimping connections and purchasing new connectors. Edited by Jtaylor - 20 Apr 2022 at 7:05am |
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Jtaylor
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Oct 2021 Location: Barrie, Ontario Points: 194 |
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More progress on the power steering mount. It is a combination of 2" angle iron as well as a flat plate that will be welded to the angle iron. I have a plan to bolt it into the engine crossmember bolt and the next closest bolt hole just behind the steering bolster.
Our main goal here is to only support the twisting motion of the unit, since it is in line with the rest of the shaft and we are utilizing the original shaft support there is no need to build a monster bracket to assist with holding it up. just something simple that keeps it from twisting when turning. I also want the mount to be removable in the event the steering assist needs to be removed for any reason. I started out with a cardboard template rough cut for a general idea of the shape. Once i was happy with the rough shape i was able to transfer it to the steel plate. Cut it out with the angle grinder and smooth the rough shape. I then cut the angle iron and fit into the frame as a rough fitment. this is how it should look, Once welded i will have a better photo to show of the completed bracket. |
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Morpar55
Bronze Level Joined: 01 Nov 2021 Location: Indiana Points: 116 |
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Not sure if I will ever need this information, but I sure am enjoying following the thread. Admittedly if my D17 power steering starts giving me fits I may consider this in lieu of repairing the original system. Keep up the good work!
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1959 AC D17 Gas with some updates
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Jtaylor
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Oct 2021 Location: Barrie, Ontario Points: 194 |
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Thanks for following along!
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13525 |
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Well,,at the risk of upsetting those that are against any modifications to the originality of these tractors,,,it IS something that will HAVE to eventually be addressed by most, due to extreme lack of parts ,,if we expect to keep this equipment operating. I DO appreciate that ,,so far, there have not been any negative comments of this thread due to the necessity of doing what needs to get done. I am just surprised that some enterprising young fellar has not already taken this idea and developed a prototype unit for the most popular group of tractors such as the D series or the WD's , the B's C's,,,chit all of them,,,,!!! Another thing,,,Those Saturn cars (made by GM) must of not had very reliable engines or transmissions as my buddies "Small" yard has bout 10 of them with the newest being a smallish 2006 Ion,,,,?
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Jtaylor
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Oct 2021 Location: Barrie, Ontario Points: 194 |
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The plan here is for me to give all the info needed to do the conversion yourself, I did it for the simplicity that i wanted something to look as factory as possible without the need for leaking fluids. by the time we are finished, you won't even see the unit without looking closely. its a win win. I also have the plan to make a few kits ready to install with limited fabrication work for these WD series tractors. I do have a local farmer that has a couple of the D series tractors that will likely need power steering at some point. maybe another venture for me? who knows.. The Saturn vehicles were never superior. Lots of electrical gremlins got to them. I remember the auto wrecker i worked in a few years back had over 20 of them.. they were never strong vehicles but there was a TON of them sold!
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Gatz in NE
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Lincoln, NE Points: 1035 |
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The D series may not have enough room for the GM unit; stock components already are crowded in limited spaces. It'd be interesting to see someone do it, tho' BTW, the long 'tube' through the ears of the aluminum casting; was that the original mount? Your mount, and also the one for the Farmall B make use of the 3 bolts on the input shaft side. Can that & the ears be eliminated? I'd take those off........might free up some real estate.
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Morpar55
Bronze Level Joined: 01 Nov 2021 Location: Indiana Points: 116 |
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May not be able to use the GM unit for the D series, but this thread could cause some enterprising person to see what other units will work and develop the controls to do so. My Challenger has electric power steering, Subarus do too. I would presume most (if not all) newer vehicles are that way to avoid dealing with the extra drag on the engine of the power steering pump and the extra room needed under the hood. Controlling the electric unit with some sort of stand alone box could be the bigger challenge, but I can see it quickly morphing into being used in the automotive hobby too. For all I know there may already be a stand alone controller out there!
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1959 AC D17 Gas with some updates
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Jtaylor
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Oct 2021 Location: Barrie, Ontario Points: 194 |
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I don't Suspect you would gain too much real estate with them not being mounted that way. The only other way you can mount to this style pump is to mount through the right side hole with a long bolt. you still run the risk of a sloppy steering once it starts to wear or if the bolt size just isn't correct. I think the 3 small bolts is your best bet. My mount once finished will be very "slimming" and will not take up much space at all.
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Jtaylor
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Oct 2021 Location: Barrie, Ontario Points: 194 |
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They are very popular in hot rod applications. very common in mazda miata, suzuki samurai and mustang swaps. its really the best win win for keeping horsepower, not maintaining fluid levels and ultra quiet.
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Jtaylor
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Oct 2021 Location: Barrie, Ontario Points: 194 |
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I got the bracket finished up, A few tweaks and some fat trimming got it down to this shape. Mounts into the engine crossmember bracket and the lower radiator hole towards the steering bolster. it fits well and is very supportive!. Best part is, it can be removed separately from the unit if it ever needed to be. I hooked up the steering wheel and tested it manually, It works great. just like the original non powered steering and no rubbing from the u-joints.
here is a couple of photos |
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Jtaylor
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Oct 2021 Location: Barrie, Ontario Points: 194 |
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LEFT BLANK BECAUSE OF INCORRECT INFORMATION
Edited by Jtaylor - 20 Apr 2022 at 7:14am |
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desertjoe
Orange Level Access Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13525 |
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Hey Morpar,,what are your concerns that this particular model may not work on the D series tractors? like ole Justin, I'm a firm believer in a cutting torch or grinder and a mig welder,,,tell us more. My thoughts are likewise in that most vehicles are prolly now standard with ESM units and,,,the heavier cars or maybe trks would most likely have the more powerful ESM's,,,?? The owner of the wrecking yard I went to did not KNOW if any of the units were any bigger or more powerful than others,,,,??
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steve(il)
Bronze Level Joined: 01 Apr 2022 Location: Illinois Points: 5 |
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smaller vehicles tend to use the MOTOR mounted to the steering column to ASSIST in turning..... Larger vehicles can use the MOTOR mounted to the RACK and help PUSH the steering arms left or right, as you turn the wheel...
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jaybmiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Greensville,Ont Points: 22228 |
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heck I'm wondering IF those grade8 bolts will support the ECM on the frame rail ??
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
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Jtaylor
Bronze Level Joined: 11 Oct 2021 Location: Barrie, Ontario Points: 194 |
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When they are cheaper than grade 5 bolts, why not! I would hate to have a grade 8 bolt failure on a 2lb ECU!
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