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SouthLouisiana121333 
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Joined: 06 Apr 2024
Location: Louisnana
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 Topic: Fender and work lights on Thomson B
Posted: 30 May 2024 at 12:53pm |
Hello everyone,
My question is regarding a 1952 B Thomson conversion. I recently wired and installed repro headlights and am now wondering if it would have had the bullet fender light or a rear work light. My goal is to make it period correct and I know that these parts are in the manuals, however, I'm wondering since Thomson bought these tractors, converted them, then re-sold them here in Louisiana if they may have bought base models without these options, or if the fender and tail lights were standard on all late 40's/ early 50's Bs.
My tractor has repro fenders so I don't have pre-drilled holes for the fender lights or the sheet metal wire sheath, however, it does have the wire sheath over the differential for the work light. Across the internet looking at pics of restorations of Bs in general I tend not to see fender and work lights. Wondering if its worth the trouble, although, once I'm ready to plow a garden I will probably add a work light anyway, just don't want to drill into the fender if I don't have to! 
I know this is an obscure/oddball question but any insight will help. Thanks in advance!
Edited by SouthLouisiana121333 - 30 May 2024 at 1:13pm
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
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Posted: 30 May 2024 at 3:52pm |
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im guessing 90% did not have lights..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Gary
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Posted: 01 Jun 2024 at 7:19am |
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In the year 2000 Terry Dean produced the Allis Chalmers Data Book.
In it is very detailed info. for Allis Farm Tractors up to and including the Model D-21.
In mid 1940 at Serial B43220 the Model B became available with what Dealers started referring to as the Deluxe Package.
The Deluxe Package included Electric Start, 2 Head Lights, and 1 single Bullet Shaped Tail Light.
In that same year the 2 Plow Model C came out.
It included as Std. Equipment the Model B Deluxe Pkg. ( Starter and Lights )
From 1940 to 1950 84,030 Model C's were built ( all with Starter and Lights )
I wouldn't be surprised that your 1952 B121333 left the Allis Factory with the Deluxe Pkg. - Starter and Lights, on its way for the Thompson Conversion.
Gary
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 01 Jun 2024 at 8:53am |
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you could get the starter WITHOUT the lights also.. I have 5 B tractors, all have starters and NONE had the lights.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Gary
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Posted: 01 Jun 2024 at 6:57pm |
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And you purchased all 5 of those B's NEW from the Allis Factory about 80 years ago, and you can guarantee there have been no changes to any of them in the past 80 years.
Ya right !
I'll take Terry Deans Facts long before your factless opinion.
G
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 02 Jun 2024 at 9:56am |
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It's your tractor make it the way you want .If someone has a opinion about the way it is then there are two opinions ,yours that you like how your tractor is , and their opinion of what they would do (99% of time they do not have one ) .No one really knows any deal deal between AC n Thompson. Could of been take what's available at the time .NO RIGHT n NO WRONG in My opinion .
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
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Gary
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Posted: 02 Jun 2024 at 1:10pm |
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I agree with you Fred when it is an owner restoring a Tractor to his liking, but in this case the Original Poster stated that he wanted to restore his 1952 B Thomson and "make it period correct" in regards to having Headlights and a Tail light.
G
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SouthLouisiana121333
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Posted: 02 Jun 2024 at 4:41pm |
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Gary, y’all’s comments gave me an idea to Google “historical photos of Allis Chalmers tractors“ and to my surprise many black and white photos came up from the late 30’s to the late 40’s that did not picture a single Allis Chalmers tractor with any lights. So, while I don’t doubt there was a deluxe package, like I originally imagined, I think that the default option was w/o lights. Searching for photos of restored B’s you find that almost all of them have at least headlights. I think this may be a restorers bias. My tractor actually had the threaded bolt holes and cutouts in the hood for headlights so I needed them. Personally I like the functionality of the headlights and work light, as I will probably be gardening until after dark but have decided against the fender light due the likelihood that it would not have had one based on the fact that most B’s did not by default even have lights.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 02 Jun 2024 at 4:50pm |
There are photos WITH and WITHOUT lights....There were STARTER tractors WITHOUT LIGHTS... Like Fred said, its your tractor and your choice...
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Gary
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Posted: 02 Jun 2024 at 8:37pm |
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 02 Jun 2024 at 10:46pm |
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aftermarket ???
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 02 Jun 2024 at 10:59pm |
 steve(ill) wrote:
There are photos WITH and WITHOUT lights....There were STARTER tractors WITHOUT LIGHTS... Like Fred said, its your tractor and your choice...
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I don't see any provisions for mounting holes for headlights on this tractor; my two Model C's had the holes but no lights, wiring, or switches when I purchased them (post 1970). I have a derelict Model C that belonged to a neighbor; I have been associated with this tractor since I was 4 years old in 1962, and it never had lights then.
I did purchase reproduction headlights for my Model C and I like them, but I would have been better served with LED's.
My totally unsupported opinion is that most farmers purchasing Model B's and C's prior to about 1950 were 'upgrading' from using horses; they were thrifty, and saw no need to spend the extra dollars for lights which they would seldom use. Dealers trying force-feed unwanted options back then like car dealers do nowadays wouldn't have stayed in business for long. How much did the optional lights cost? $5? $10? $50? I dunno. Doesn't seem like much money to us, but you didn't grow up with MY Grandparents  |
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Gary
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Posted: 03 Jun 2024 at 5:46am |
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Yup - "Thomson" Aftermarket. Thomson bought a standard B from Allis and converted
it to a Thomson High Crop at their Factory in Thibodaux, LA.
G
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Jun 2024 at 7:54am |
Yup - "Thomson" Aftermarket.
Does it say "Made in CHINA" on the back ??
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Gary
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Posted: 03 Jun 2024 at 8:11am |
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Who knows ? It's quite possible since it is Thomson and not Allis.
Are certain Parts on your Ford F150 stamped or labelled MIC ?
G
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Jun 2024 at 8:15am |
RIGHT..... FORD bought all kinds of parts from CHINA in 1945 !!! 
You think during the WAR in 194- 1945 it was a PRIORITY for ALLIS to "put lights on every B and C tractor made" ??? GIVE ME A BREAK.
Edited by steve(ill) - 03 Jun 2024 at 8:16am
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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SouthLouisiana121333
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Posted: 03 Jun 2024 at 12:32pm |
Gary and Steve, are we going to need to do a statistical analysis on the percentages of Allis Chalmers tractor restorations that have Chinese aftermarket headlights installed? My thought is that a majority of restorations these days are going to have reproduction lights due to the fact that it seems like refurbishing the originals (if the tractor even had them) , would be pretty difficult and much easier to replace. I’m happy with my reproductions.
Edited by SouthLouisiana121333 - 03 Jun 2024 at 12:38pm
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Gary
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Posted: 03 Jun 2024 at 4:18pm |
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Poor Stevie, you really should get yourself a copy of Terry Deans' "Allis Chalmers Farm Tractors Data Book".
Then you could learn some real facts about Allis Chalmers Model B and C.
Regarding your outburst about the Wartime - I don't just think - I know -
because I have the FACTS from Terry Deans Data Book.
On page 64 Terry States:
'All Model C's had 6 Volt Starter AND LIGHTS' from 1940 to 1950, 84030 units
G
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Jun 2024 at 4:27pm |
Gary has a bad case of TDS... Everytime i post anything , he has to investigate and try to prove me wrong.. He looks for miss spelled words , punctuation, or i can say a tractor is 70 years old and he yells "NO, NO, it is 71 years old"..... I dont know if terdlogic has got him.. i refer to his boy as "FJB" and he dont like it... either that or i PISSED in his cheerios years ago and he cant forget it !!.......
YEP..... ALLIS was buying headlights from CHINA in 1942 to make sure EVERY BODY got headlights on their B and C tractors... That was a PRIORITY during the WAR.. to SPEND MONEY on headlights !! |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Les Kerf
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Posted: 03 Jun 2024 at 6:27pm |
SouthLouisiana121333 wrote:
... to my surprise many black and white photos came up from the late 30’s to the late 40’s that did not picture a single Allis Chalmers tractor with any lights. So, while I don’t doubt there was a deluxe package, like I originally imagined, I think that the default option was w/o lights... |
Naw, my guess is that the deluxe package was just that, Deluxe. And most farmers weren't into Deluxe. And the photos would seem to back up that guess.
I'm pretty sure that Ford sold most War era tractors sans lights, and my 1941 John Deere Model A certainly never had any electrical device other than the magneto. I also know that my Wife's Grandfather was farming during the war and ordered an Allis Model C, he was put on a waiting list and never did receive the Model C (they must have been waiting for the headlights to come from China since no Model C was EVER shipped without headlights) but after the war he finally got a Model CA instead.
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