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Custom Allis B

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Jim2 View Drop Down
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Joined: 20 Feb 2024
Location: Wisconsin
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    Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 10:47am
Hello from Wisconsin!

Bought a 1940 Allis B on auction last August and have been working on it pretty much ever since.  Was a bow-axle B in the original configuration when I got it.  Needed something a little more stable for my acreage, needs, and available storage facilities.  Was drawn to the Allis by its classic good looks, simplicity, and useful gearing for my needs.

This is more or less what it looks like now:


Have done a little more painting on it since this photo was taken, and have been working on getting it to run a little better.  Took it out to the woods to document finally getting it running.  Had to have the carburetor off another 2 times after to finally get it to run without choke.  Also adjusted the timing a little at the distributor, but still not running quite right.  

Have it stripped down to paint the back half right now.  Will have a go at leak at the front crank seal before too long here.

This is just a quick post to say hi.

Jim
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Steve in NJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 12:03pm
Love it! Low rider B model. I think the Model B is one model Tractor that has gone through more changes whether custom or revised than any other AC Tractor. I'm a hotrodder by heart so I always do something with my Tractors a little different than stock. I've been collectiing parts for my other B for a few years to build a low rider. Pretty cool Tractor. Thanks for sharing. Welcome to the Orange family!
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 12:42pm
Thats a good looking little tractor.. You have had it a week so i assume MOST of the MODS were there when you bought it ?

The steering wheel / shaft is not the original setup. The tube is several inches shorter and has been mounted to a plate and angled more vertical... which makes it a better setup when you move the seat forward, and rotate the rear axles forward.... I assume you know the rear axles were originally mounted  vertical with the oil pan on the bottom.. you can rotate them forward 90 degrees and that lowers the tractor 7 inches.. That was done on the IB tractors.

Rear hubs are deep dish. Almost look like a "C" rear hubs, with the 5 bolt pattern... Most of the "B" were splined to the shaft.. some had the 5 bolt, but not that deep of dish... maybe even the entire rear end is from a C ?..... not close enough to see from here.   Wishbone front end would have made it set kind of HIGH on the front ??

Good looking so far !




Edited by steve(ill) - 17 Mar 2024 at 12:44pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Jim2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 1:17pm
Thanks for the welcome.

No, actually bought it back in August in it's original configuration.  Here's an early picture.



Replaced bearings and seals in rear final drive after welding up rust-through in the pan.  Replaced spacer in the transmission and refreshed seals in the transmission and left final as well.  Lowered it in the process of those fixes and then started fabbing the front axle, gas tank support, platform, hitch, fender supports, seat supports, etc.  Have removed the PTO, original hydraulics and belt pulley drive to have my own custom hydraulics.



Just installed the hydraulic pump today on that boss in my rear block-out plate.  Have a little more painting to do, but will have to wait for the coat that is on there now to dry.  It's pretty cold here in Wisconsin this week, so will be working on other things while I wait for that.

Jim

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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 1:24pm
OK... that explains a LOT.. YOU have done all the work... Some how i read that you got it last week ??  Does that sound like last AUGUST ??  Wink

Did you eliminate the hydraulic pump / pto shaft and build the new cover.. or was that the way it came ?

Still think the wheels ( deep dish) are off a C ... hard to tell about the final drive WIDTH from the photos... Could have been a B with 5 bolt axles..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 1:27pm
Lots of DESIGN and FIGURIN on that rear brake setup ! Does it have a brake pedal also.. or just the two hand levers ?
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Jim2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 1:47pm
Yes the rear wheels are deep dish that match a C.   Don't have a lot of experience with Allis, so just figure the 5-bolt rears for a B were the same as C?  I bought the inner weights off a C from a salvage guy and have cleaned up, painted, and mounted on there, so definitely are the C-style wheels.

Yes, have custom clutch and brake pedals.  Those are just the brake locks in the picture, but they work in place of the pedals as well.

Yes, took the original rear cover w/ PTO, hydraulics, and belt pulley off and replaced with my own cover.  Original had lots of leaks and needed adjustment (bearings?).  I could have made that work for hydraulics, I guess.  Just figured I didn't need the extra aggravation of chasing those leaks.  I'm planning to leave this tractor hooked to my hydraulic dump trailer, so wouldn't have use for PTO or belt.  Have a couple other tractors for those other jobs, anyway.

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 7:56pm
that will be about 1000 times easyer to get on and off of .   nice fabricating
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Jim2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 9:35pm
Yeah, none of us getting any younger!  That's a great side benefit--though goal was really just stability on hills and smaller footprint.

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 10:29pm
dont know about the rest of you guys but i am getting younger every day
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2024 at 11:06pm
Is that the factory steering column and gear box... just cut  a foot of the length ?  Where did you hide the battery ?
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Jim2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 9:52am
Sorry, didn't see your question, Steve.  Have been having some issues with my email, and didn't think to check the forum as didn't get any notifications.



Have the battery mounted on the side there.  Did that early on as knew that I wouldn't be using any front implements once this tractor was lowered.  Turns out there's almost enough room under the gas tank now with the steering changed up, but like I said--no reason to change it now.

Yes, shortened the original steering shaft and made a new top for it.  It is quite a lot shorter than stock.  You can see the gas tank mount there as well.





The original steering tube just fits inside of the new steering column.  I know it's a little overbuilt, but at the time was still sorting out what I was going to do for a throttle, and thought I might possibly mount it, or possibly other things as well, on there.




I just cut the original shaft off and welded this bit on top.  That ball bearing is slip fit inside of the steering column from the bottom.  Have had it on and off several times now in the course of rebuilding the steering box, doing the electrical, etc.



Jim
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Jim2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by HudCo HudCo wrote:

dont know about the rest of you guys but i am getting younger every day

Love that attitude; however, noticing a slight downward trend over time.  Nothing to be too concerned about yet. LOL
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 6:42pm
Good idea on the steering shaft.. I lowered a B several years ago and cut 8 inches off the steering shaft, but kept the original mount.... moving it BACK and tilting it UP looks like a good idea....

In fact, i normally cut 6 inches off ALL of the steering shafts on the B and gives me more room to get ON and OFF ... and i dont like the steering wheel stuck in my chest..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 6:46pm
Here is a B that i rotated the finals and built a straight front axle. I cut several inches off the steering tube, but still uses the original mounts.. YES, there is room for the battery in the original location on this one...... Photo says 2004 for a date... DANG !! Didnt realize it had been 20 years !   ... i have a belly mower on it now.. we call it the "Orchard B "..



Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2024 at 8:48pm
Very nice!  

Don't think that I mentioned it earlier, but I also reduced the wheelbase when I lowered the tractor.  Here's an in-process picture from when I was working on it and before adding rear bracing.




I know the picture isn't the best, but you can kind of see that the axle is mounted behind the pivot point.  The kingpins are also centered on the rear of the axle.  That shortened the wheelbase by about 4 1/2".  I think I'm at maybe just a little over 60" now.

Was just playing around with having the tie-rod in front of the axle at the time.  Decided that didn't work very well, and have since moved it back behind the axle.  

Jim

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Jim2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2024 at 9:16am
This B is a 1940 model, and as such has no thermostat.  Wondering if a later-model thermostat housing would be a bolt-on replacement for the water tube on this tractor? 

Seems like I'll need some way of getting tractor up to temperature in cold weather.  Have yet to see the temp gauge much, if any, above 120 degrees.  Would like to use the tractor to bring firewood up to the house in the winter time.

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2024 at 9:35am
Before thermostats they used radiator shutters or canvas partially blocking the front of the grille (like you see on some trucks and busses in the winter).
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2024 at 1:29pm
Looked at the tractor again after I posted.  Think mine may well have a thermostat, but it's likely not working.  Will have to have some more seat time to see what's going on.

JIm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2024 at 2:15pm
Some of those older thermostats were designed to be pretty cool because the antifreeze was alcohol based and if the engine ran very warm then the alcohol would boil out of the coolant. My previous Model C had a 140 degree thermostat in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Brian S(NY) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2024 at 2:20pm
very very nice :) I could do that myself IF i had the imagination and ability ;)
God made man.Sam colt made man equal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2024 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Jim2 Jim2 wrote:

This B is a 1940 model, and as such has no thermostat.  Wondering if a later-model thermostat housing would be a bolt-on replacement for the water tube on this tractor? 

Seems like I'll need some way of getting tractor up to temperature in cold weather.  Have yet to see the temp gauge much, if any, above 120 degrees.  Would like to use the tractor to bring firewood up to the house in the winter time.

Jim

  Either type thermostat housing (Cast Iron or Aluminum) will bolt right in if you have the bypass plug in your waterpump. If you don't have the plug, the cast iron housing works fine. For either type a 180 or higher thermostat is available (if you can find a knowledgeable parts person) Just call Sandy Lake Implement and they can fix you up. 
  With a good thermostat, shutters are not needed.  I have 2 NOS canvas curtains that were used on the very early Bs.  
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2024 at 5:37pm
Steiner sells a 160 degree thermostat for the B, and they claim 180 degree thermostat could cause overheating. . . .

I won't be doing fieldwork, so would be better if it ran a little hotter, maybe? Would think for my use that a higher temperature thermostat might be better.   

Any thoughts on that?

Ran it around the yard some and then up and down the road in 3rd gear a quarter mile each way including my very steep driveway.  Never got warmer than 120 degrees.

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2024 at 7:22pm
I call Bull$hit on Stiner.  All of my working tractors have 180 thermostats, not one has ever overheated. With a good clean cooling system, there's nothing to worry about. Running a lower temperature thermostat may not boil off collected moisture unless run all day long. what happens in uncared for engines is sludge and rust packs around rearward cylinders and over the years build up to the point no water circulates around the sleeves.
  In my CA & D10 pulling tractors which ran on E85 I had 190 degree thermostats and only had 2 blade fans. They needed to be warmed up to running temperature and would never overheat, even with multiple back to back pulls to get the sled set.   
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Jim2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2024 at 8:18pm
Yeah, my girl just ain't gonna work that hard.  Most it would ever do would be to pull a couple of big hills in road gear pulling my little 4 x 6 dump trailer.  As long as the temp gauge is accurate, would be able to make adjustments as necessary.

I think I'm gonna look for a 180 degree thermostat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberta Phil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2024 at 9:26am
Most Allis tractors are noted for running cool.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2024 at 1:39pm
Pulled it apart this morning.  As I suspected there was no thermostat in there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote rasman57 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2024 at 7:09am
That is some impressive fabricating you have done on that tractor.  Great work!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2024 at 12:56pm
Haven't had any updates lately, but have run into an issue that I can't seem to get past.  Tractor starts well and runs good but only with choke once I throttle up.  It will run fine at idle without choke.  If I throttle up without choke it sounds like it is may be running on 3 cylinders.  

I have had the carb off 3 times, and I'm pretty sure that I've got it cleaned properly.   Tank is clean as well.  Had been working on painting and hydraulics, but now that I've got that further along have been using the tractor to pull my small dump trailer.  I have some pretty steep hills here, so it works pretty hard when the trailer is loaded good.  I'm pretty happy with the power, but only when choked.

Finally have gotten around to looking at the ignition side of things.  Had distributor apart and checked that the weights inside are free.  Points, rotor, and cap look good (or new), and did replace condenser.  Also replaced spark plug wires.  Spark plugs appear to be new.  Did notice that #4 seems to be running much leaner than then other 3 cylinders.

Any ideas as to how to address the choke problems?

Here's some more pics.  Also have the front axle painted now, but these pictures don't show that.  







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2024 at 1:11pm
if it runs good at idle, but needs the choke on when you REV it up... 90% of the time the main jet is plugged... or partly plugged.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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